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> although we're doing a terrible job of distributing it to the world Are we? Starvation and malnutrition used to be common and is now rare. https://ourworld

> although we're doing a terrible job of distributing it to the world Are we? Starvation and malnutrition used to be common and is now rare. https://ourworldindata.org/famines https://ourworldindata.org/famines

tomnipotent 4y ago
This is true, but it's also true that the world produces enough food such that no ones needs to starve, and yet people still starve. A quarter of food produced ends up in landfills (Europe estimates 20% food waste, as high as 30-40% in US).
- imgabe 4y ago
  Some food should be wasted. If 100% of food were consumed, that would mean that any slight disruption would result in not enough food, or that we were already in a state where there is not enough food. Wasting some food is better than having food shortages. Much better.
  - tomnipotent 4y ago
    We've built a society that's so litigious that companies are incentivized to recommend throwing away food even if there's less than a 0.01% chance of food-borne illness. Our waste is in part out of fear of getting sued or sick, but I'm not convinced the waste is the lesser of two evils. Food poisoning sucks, but it's survivable. Unlike starvation. A good example of this caution is eggs and refrigeration, for which American's and European's have opposite ways of handling things.
    - pracer 4y ago
      I think the point missing is that food that get wasted could not arrive where it is needed before getting rot. Letting aside the expenses to do that. The problem is not that we waste food, as it would not solve starvation, the problem is that in those places where people has no food, there is no production.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  I love how this comment thread perfectly echoes what the article is talking about. From a sibling comment by imtrigued: > Almost a billion are still going hungry. "The world is awful" And then from your parent comment: > Are we? Starvation and malnutrition used to be common and is now rare "The world is better" And finally your comment: > it's also true that the world produces enough food such that no ones needs to starve "The world can be much better" These three are all true, and I suspect each person already knew all three. It's just that each person chose to focus on a separate aspect.
  - gitrog 4y ago
    It seems to me that the first two are statements, and the final one is a conclusion, which is the only one that's productive to focus on.
    - woojoo666 4y ago
      I think they all achieve different purposes. "The world is awful" highlights a problem that needs solving, a concrete goal "The world is better" tells you that something is working, which you can build on top of or improve "The world can be better" gives a proposal for a course of action While the 3rd might seem like the most useful, the 1st is extremely important too, because if the proposal fails then you need to fall back to thinking about the problem. The 2nd is important for both motivation, and also for promoting incremental progress
      - safety1st 4y ago
        It's a nice narrative but the accuracy of it is questionable, there isn't really some grand historical march away from famine. We've just had a great run from 1980-2020. https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/03/Famine-victims-since-1860s_March18.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/03/Famine-victims-si... The situation in 2022 is not good, it will take time to see exactly how bad. Famine correlates very closely with war -- if our recent period of relative global peace comes to an end it will probably return with a vengeance.
imtringued 4y ago
Almost a billion are still going hungry.
inglor_cz 4y ago
Slowly but surely, the main problem with food is changing from "starvation" to "obesity". Which is arguably just a different form of malnutrition, somewhat less deadly, but more of a chronic burden on the patient and the society.
safety1st 4y ago
In 2017 when that article was last updated, yeah sure. Not sure you can make that declaration in 2022. The combination of record poverty caused by Covid lockdowns and food supply chain disruptions caused by the war in Ukraine has put millions of people worldwide in famine conditions: https://www.reuters.com/world/world-faces-unprecedented-global-hunger-crisis-un-chief-says-2022-06-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/world-faces-unprecedented-glob... Exactly how bad it will get remains to be seen. But the causes of famine are generally political and in terms of total body counts the worst ones are basically "big country X really screws up" (e.g. China and the Soviet Union in the 20th century) and/or wars and I don't think we have any guarantee that those things won't happen again.
- trasz 4y ago
  FWIW, China has a very long history of famines. Twentieth century wasn't an outlier - although in the West it's been heavily publicised for propaganda reasons.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    It was the worst famine - and, arguably, period - in the history of the world: - tens of millions died due to starvation from central planning issues (variously causing: a plague of locusts; Mao wanting to save face so refused foreign aid and maintained being a net exporter of food while people were starving; diverting people away from agriculture to metal production to meet the five year plan) - millions died from government beatings/torturings to death, and suicide due to hopelessness and government destruction of cultural traditions in the name of centrally planned progress Now one might say that there may have been even more harmful centrally planned economies, i.e. the USSR and Nazi Germany, but at best any of the candidates is competing to be only the third worst disaster in the history of the world.
    - trasz 4y ago
      It was the worst, but some of the ones before it weren't far behind - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China. Also I find it curious that among the possible causes you forgot to mention World War 2. What would you say if someone omitted that when explaining fifties in Europe?

tomnipotent 4y ago

This is true, but it's also true that the world produces enough food such that no ones needs to starve, and yet people still starve. A quarter of food produced ends up in landfills (Europe estimates 20% food waste, as high as 30-40% in US).

imgabe 4y ago
Some food should be wasted. If 100% of food were consumed, that would mean that any slight disruption would result in not enough food, or that we were already in a state where there is not enough food. Wasting some food is better than having food shortages. Much better.
- tomnipotent 4y ago
  We've built a society that's so litigious that companies are incentivized to recommend throwing away food even if there's less than a 0.01% chance of food-borne illness. Our waste is in part out of fear of getting sued or sick, but I'm not convinced the waste is the lesser of two evils. Food poisoning sucks, but it's survivable. Unlike starvation. A good example of this caution is eggs and refrigeration, for which American's and European's have opposite ways of handling things.
  - pracer 4y ago
    I think the point missing is that food that get wasted could not arrive where it is needed before getting rot. Letting aside the expenses to do that. The problem is not that we waste food, as it would not solve starvation, the problem is that in those places where people has no food, there is no production.
woojoo666 4y ago
I love how this comment thread perfectly echoes what the article is talking about. From a sibling comment by imtrigued: > Almost a billion are still going hungry. "The world is awful" And then from your parent comment: > Are we? Starvation and malnutrition used to be common and is now rare "The world is better" And finally your comment: > it's also true that the world produces enough food such that no ones needs to starve "The world can be much better" These three are all true, and I suspect each person already knew all three. It's just that each person chose to focus on a separate aspect.
- gitrog 4y ago
  It seems to me that the first two are statements, and the final one is a conclusion, which is the only one that's productive to focus on.
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    I think they all achieve different purposes. "The world is awful" highlights a problem that needs solving, a concrete goal "The world is better" tells you that something is working, which you can build on top of or improve "The world can be better" gives a proposal for a course of action While the 3rd might seem like the most useful, the 1st is extremely important too, because if the proposal fails then you need to fall back to thinking about the problem. The 2nd is important for both motivation, and also for promoting incremental progress
    - safety1st 4y ago
      It's a nice narrative but the accuracy of it is questionable, there isn't really some grand historical march away from famine. We've just had a great run from 1980-2020. https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/03/Famine-victims-since-1860s_March18.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/03/Famine-victims-si... The situation in 2022 is not good, it will take time to see exactly how bad. Famine correlates very closely with war -- if our recent period of relative global peace comes to an end it will probably return with a vengeance.

imtringued 4y ago

Almost a billion are still going hungry.

inglor_cz 4y ago

Slowly but surely, the main problem with food is changing from "starvation" to "obesity". Which is arguably just a different form of malnutrition, somewhat less deadly, but more of a chronic burden on the patient and the society.

safety1st 4y ago

In 2017 when that article was last updated, yeah sure. Not sure you can make that declaration in 2022. The combination of record poverty caused by Covid lockdowns and food supply chain disruptions caused by the war in Ukraine has put millions of people worldwide in famine conditions: https://www.reuters.com/world/world-faces-unprecedented-global-hunger-crisis-un-chief-says-2022-06-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/world-faces-unprecedented-glob... Exactly how bad it will get remains to be seen. But the causes of famine are generally political and in terms of total body counts the worst ones are basically "big country X really screws up" (e.g. China and the Soviet Union in the 20th century) and/or wars and I don't think we have any guarantee that those things won't happen again.

trasz 4y ago
FWIW, China has a very long history of famines. Twentieth century wasn't an outlier - although in the West it's been heavily publicised for propaganda reasons.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  It was the worst famine - and, arguably, period - in the history of the world: - tens of millions died due to starvation from central planning issues (variously causing: a plague of locusts; Mao wanting to save face so refused foreign aid and maintained being a net exporter of food while people were starving; diverting people away from agriculture to metal production to meet the five year plan) - millions died from government beatings/torturings to death, and suicide due to hopelessness and government destruction of cultural traditions in the name of centrally planned progress Now one might say that there may have been even more harmful centrally planned economies, i.e. the USSR and Nazi Germany, but at best any of the candidates is competing to be only the third worst disaster in the history of the world.
  - trasz 4y ago
    It was the worst, but some of the ones before it weren't far behind - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China. Also I find it curious that among the possible causes you forgot to mention World War 2. What would you say if someone omitted that when explaining fifties in Europe?