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Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually incr
by yoavm 4y ago
Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.
- capableweb 4y agoIf "Install any software" becomes real and I can start writing software on Linux for iPhone, without requiring me to have a Mac, I'll become an instant iPhone fanboy as the hardware is second to none. It's the software that is stopping the phone from becoming the best one around.
- iasay 4y agoI think that's completely unrealistic. It's not going to happen even if they open the platform up.
- capableweb 4y agoIf the platform becomes open enough so we can side-load applications, I bet you 100EUR we'll be able to develop iPhone applications from any operating system, but first Linux, within a year :)
- iasay 4y agoNote that I'm side loading two applications I actually wrote myself on my iPhone already...
- capableweb 4y agoHow? I've been looking for ages on how to develop iPhone applications on Linux and there is no way that doesn't involve installing Hackingtosh, either as a new OS on a partition or in a VM, or renting a Mac server somewhere, so it's not really "developing on Linux" at all.
- iasay 4y agoUm, you just create a cert in XCode, pair your device to it, load the certs onto the device and run the app on it. You're not going to do it on a Linux box for sure as the tools aren't there but you certainly can run your own stuff on iOS. You don't have to sign up for anything either - just install XCode from the app store and build stuff.
- capableweb 4y agoAh, I see. You completely missed the point... > I can start writing software on Linux for iPhone, without requiring me to have a Mac > we'll be able to develop iPhone applications from any operating system, but first Linux > how to develop iPhone applications on Linux ^ is what I wrote, and you suggest "just install XCode from the app store"? Not sure how that's compatible. Regardless, I hope we end with a phone that people can actually install their own software on, regardless of what laptops/desktop computer they own.
- iasay 4y agoThat's never going to happen and I'd rather Apple spent money on something else other than make it happen. The issue is you don't have a Mac and that's really your problem, not theirs.
- HelloNurse 4y agoRandom anecdote: if you don't pay 99€ yearly for your developer subscription Apple revokes your certificates and disables your apps on the Apple app store. Your problem indeed.
- iasay 4y agoYou don't have to pay Apple to deploy to your own device. I don't have a developer subscription. You only have to pay the 99€ to access the store and provisioning.
- jokethrowaway 4y agoThe only thing you 100% need osx for is the signature / certificates crap. You can build most of an iOS app today on Linux (eg. some game frameworks, qt) Eg: https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/development/compiling/cross-compiling_for_ios_on_linux.html https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/development/compiling...
- capableweb 4y agoThat's really helpful, didn't know about this and my endless searching didn't reveal this either. Thanks!
- amichal 4y agoI googled. There do appear to be `codesign` implementations on other platforms now https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14321559/using-mac-os-command-codesign-in-linux https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14321559/using-mac-os-co... as well . No clue if they work
- webmobdev 4y agoI am not sure about this - does install any software also mean system software or is it only meant to allow installation from sources other than their own app store? To allow system software installations, Apple (and other mobile device manufacturers) will have to allow unlocking the bootloader. (But that alone is limited as without the hardware information of the individual parts, developing an alternate OS for such devices is painful work as you have to essentially reverse engineer everything to create the device drivers - as evident with the snail's pace that Asahi Linux are progressing at to port Linux to Apple M1 and M2 ARM processors. Unless ofcourse, the DMA also forces them to publish the hardware literature so that other system developers can use it, which would be a real game changer ... ).
- DCKing 4y agoAgreed. I switched from an iPhone to a Pixel because the iPhone experience is claustrophobic (admittedly I switched from Android to iPhone before that for the much better and lengthy software Apple gives). If this means the iPhone is getting things similar to F-Droid and NewPipe I'd be happy to switch back. The new iPads have an M1 chip with virtualization capabilities, but you wouldn't know it with the stuff Apple allows on it. Imagine how much better iPads would be if Apple couldn't block Linux VMs just because it doesn't suit them.
- hef19898 4y agoHa, a iPad running Linux would be something I'd look at. It is a surprise so, that the EU is actually moving, at scale, in that direction. Maybe privacy, processed food and some other things next!
- closewith 4y agoWhat? The EU has enacted GDPR, 178/2002/EC (food safety), 44/1999/EC (consumer protection), any number of consumer protection Regulations and Directives.
- hef19898 4y agoGDPR is good, just needs reinforcement. The way things like the nutrition score are done is just bad so.
- jonkoops 4y agoGDPR enforcement is getting better. But yeah man nutri-score is really flawed.
- k__ 4y agoHow is the nutri-score flawed? I looked at the rules and it seemed like a really good idea. I even got the impression, products got changed for the better in the last year to get a higher nutri-score.
- brtkdotse 4y agoIt’s not a popular opinion around here, but the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. It just works, reliably, without surprises, for years on end.
- LeoNatan25 4y agoAnd will continue to work exactly like that after the required changes. We’ll just have more options.
- bushbaba 4y agoNot if players like epic games don’t support Apple Pay (with east cancellation). Don’t support the app stores rules and are only found in 3rd party apo stores..etc. It’ll turn the iPhone into an android. Which sucks as I left android because I enjoyed the walled garden.
- the_duke 4y agoYou are free to not use any app that doesn't want to submit to a 30%/20% Apple tax. No one is forcing you to play Epic games. But Apple will probably cut down their rates significantly so most companies stick with the app store. Especially if the US follows suit.
- d12bb 4y agoThere are countless ways one can be forced to use an app. My employer could require it. My bank could switch to their own system from Apple Pay. The public transport in my region could roll their own tracking ticket system instead of using Apple Pay. An app leaving the App Store could just have no viable alternative. Etc.
- turbinerneiter 4y agoThat's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the people who prefer to stay in it for peace of mind, but it adds a door for the people who want to leave. There is no negative side-effects for the people staying, only the platform providers will have to spend some money and lose some revenue.
- fHr 4y ago
- antonymy 4y agoSame, actually. I've seen enough iPhones in the hands of friends and family to be envious of some of the features, but I've never wanted to be part of Apple's walled garden. A more open iPhone that I would be free to choose my own apps for if I didn't like Apple's offerings? Yeah I'd try that.
- mirntyfirty 4y agoSame although replaceable batteries would make it even more compelling. I enjoyed the early Motorola android phones because they were phones rather than jewelry and they also kept them lightweight.
- kibwen 4y agoSame here. I'm dying for a phone that doesn't balk at the idea of long-term support, but I'm simply not using a platform where I can't install the software I want and can't even get a real version of Firefox.
- deadbunny 4y agoThe Fairphone 4 has 5 years of support IIRC.
- alkonaut 4y agoHaving used iPhones since the very earliest ones, I also fear this might turn it into an Android situation. I like iPhone because I know it’s likely the page works in Safari since iOS+Safari is a large customer group. While choice, a diverse web, competition & all that is important, I personally wouldn’t want anything but a walled garden monoculture in most cases. Being able to integrate a different voice assistant?? Sideloading apps as an advanced user concept sounds great. But if users who switch on their iPhone for the first time had to @choose a store”, that would be an absolutely terrible UX.
- mission_failed 4y agoUsing Android really sucks. I hate being able to install whatever browser I want and old versions of apps
- mmastrac 4y agoI realize it's sarcasm, but my Android has the ability to run whatever I want on it and I just use it for a handful of things that Google won't allow. That's all I need. It's not a free-for-all or a virus-laden hellscape. It's just freedom.
- alkonaut 4y agoSideloading on iOS would be great but that’s an unimportant point in this article compared to “user chooses App Store and voice assistant”
- theplumber 4y ago>> I know it’s likely the page works in Safari since iOS+Safari is a large customer group That until you find out some of the best web technologies are not working on safari(i.e indexeddb has been left unfixed for years on purpose by apple). I don't think people would like a safari only on desktop. Why would they want that on mobile?
- alkonaut 4y agoI don’t really care about modern web tech I’m happy so long as web pages I visit work and lay out properly. (I don’t do web dev so I don’t need to professionally worry about the IE6-issues of having a large but slow moving target)
- katbyte 4y agoIt would be absolutely hilarious if this skews the market heavily towards apple dominance
- unity1001 4y agoYep. Actually I could also consider using an iPhone and Mac devices in general in such a case.
- highwaylights 4y agoIronically it might be the last iPhone I use, even though I believe very much in free-as-in-speech software on my devices. This just bludgeons so much of the security model of the iPhone. I get that this is by Apple's design, in that conflating the security model of the iPhone with App Store lock-in has been a gold mine, but I just don't see how you provide the same malware guarantees without that enforcement. EDIT: Not sure why the downvotes, I guess it's from people that are big free-software-at-any-cost advocates. The cost of doing this is going to be too high for most iPhone users - I very much doubt this is in their best interests overall.
- maratc 4y agoFor me, "an iPhone that complies with these demands" would be a worse experience than the current one. I have no intention to install Microsoft app store (so I can get Outlook), Facebook app store (so I can get WhatsApp), and Google app store (so I can have Maps). I prefer having one app store to having four different ones.
- yoavm 4y agoYou can use any store you want on Android, and yet you can get Outlook, WhatsApp and Maps from the Play store. Why would it be different?
- maratc 4y agoThat's a current situation, on one platform. In the future, this might be the same on the other platform, — or it might be different. I don't trust any of Google/Microsoft/Facebook to not try to shove their app store (user account, personal information collection) down our throats in perpetuity.
- zamalek 4y agoI'd put good money on this only being available to EU users for all companies affected by the act. Especially Apple.