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Ukraine Defense Chief Wants Advanced Weapons Testing Against Russians

7 points by app4soft 4y ago

senttoschool 4y ago
No, I wouldn't want to do anything Ukraine's leaders want right now. Initially, they said they won't pull out of joining NATO. Then Russia invaded. Then they said they won't join NATO if Russia stopped the war. Hence, there was no reason for the war except for the stubbornness of Ukraine's leaders. Ukraine's leaders don't seem to be pragmatic at all. I, for one, do not want to send more of my money to Ukraine or have the world increase in inflation/conflict just for Ukraine's idealism.
- nradov 4y ago
  It's got nothing to do with idealism. As long as Ukraine is willing to do the dirty work of killing Russian soldiers that keeps the rest of us safer.
  - app4soft 4y ago
    Correct.[0] [0] https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1548994505118031873 https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1548994505118031873
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    So escalating the war with experimental weapons is going to keep "us" safer? Who is us?
    - app4soft 4y ago
      > Who is us? Who you are? I'm Ukrainian living in Ukraine.[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30395897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30395897
- Arnt 4y ago
  Assuming that that factual basis were true… who gets to decide whether Ukraine joins NATO, in your opinion? Ukrainian voters or someone else? If someone else, why? Go, on, try to put it in words. Make a coherent theory of when one country can decide what another country may and may not do. The principle we have now is one that was agreed on in 1648, in the peace treaty that ended the thirty years' war: Countries are sovereign, and each country accepts that it doesn't have any sort of super-right over other countries. (Exceptions are set out in special treaties, so e.g. Germany needed other countries' permissions to reunify, because the WW2 peace treaty granted those countries certain rights.)
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  Let’s be clear the only reason for this war is Russia not Ukraine. No one else made the decision to invade except Russian. The world would be a much worse place if Russia won, be happy that the Russians are getting routed by western weapons, it means that Russia is getting much weaker and poorer per day.

7 points by app4soft 4y ago

No, I wouldn't want to do anything Ukraine's leaders want right now. Initially, they said they won't pull out of joining NATO. Then Russia invaded. Then they said they won't join NATO if Russia stopped the war. Hence, there was no reason for the war except for the stubbornness of Ukraine's leaders. Ukraine's leaders don't seem to be pragmatic at all. I, for one, do not want to send more of my money to Ukraine or have the world increase in inflation/conflict just for Ukraine's idealism.

nradov 4y ago
It's got nothing to do with idealism. As long as Ukraine is willing to do the dirty work of killing Russian soldiers that keeps the rest of us safer.
- app4soft 4y ago
  Correct.[0] [0] https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1548994505118031873 https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1548994505118031873
- senttoschool 4y ago
  So escalating the war with experimental weapons is going to keep "us" safer? Who is us?
  - app4soft 4y ago
    > Who is us? Who you are? I'm Ukrainian living in Ukraine.[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30395897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30395897
Arnt 4y ago
Assuming that that factual basis were true… who gets to decide whether Ukraine joins NATO, in your opinion? Ukrainian voters or someone else? If someone else, why? Go, on, try to put it in words. Make a coherent theory of when one country can decide what another country may and may not do. The principle we have now is one that was agreed on in 1648, in the peace treaty that ended the thirty years' war: Countries are sovereign, and each country accepts that it doesn't have any sort of super-right over other countries. (Exceptions are set out in special treaties, so e.g. Germany needed other countries' permissions to reunify, because the WW2 peace treaty granted those countries certain rights.)
_kbh_ 4y ago
Let’s be clear the only reason for this war is Russia not Ukraine. No one else made the decision to invade except Russian. The world would be a much worse place if Russia won, be happy that the Russians are getting routed by western weapons, it means that Russia is getting much weaker and poorer per day.