6 ms·

For school shootings, it’s rationally absurd to worry about those rare events. It’s like worrying about dying from a terrorist attack or a plane crash in France

by cm2187 4y ago

For school shootings, it’s rationally absurd to worry about those rare events. It’s like worrying about dying from a terrorist attack or a plane crash in France. The probability is mathematically non zero, and the country makes a big deal when that happens, but it is statistically a non problem. Being confronted with an armed robber in a home invasion is more of a problem in the US (but France has its own fair share of violent crime). Outside of that I think the bulk of gun violence is suicides and gang on gang violence.

scambier 4y ago
"School shootings are mathematically irrelevant", what a take.
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
  Talk about normalisation of deviance! I've read that more children have died of gunshot wounds this year than police officers have died in the line of duty.[1] Granted, there are probably more school children at school than there are police at work on any given day, so ... of course children are more likely to be shot at a school? But then again, here in Australia we have reasonable gun control after that mass schooling in Tasmania all those years ago ... and the country still turned to shit ... so? While were here, anyone else got any arguments no one would intentionally make? 1. https://en.as.com/latest_news/more-children-have-died-in-school-shootings-in-2022-than-police-officers-in-the-line-of-duty-fact-check-n/ https://en.as.com/latest_news/more-children-have-died-in-sch...
  - chii 4y ago
    and thousands more died due to motor traffic accidents (https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/preliminary-monthly-estimates/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/prelimina...) The outrage always happens on politically charged subjects, but worse outcomes happen on the roads, and nobody talks about it as though it was normal. Kids should fear crossing the street more than an active shooter. While i don't disagree that gun control is a good outcome, the difficulty of achieving it in the US is real. Effort is better spent addressing the root cause of gun violence, rather than attempting to take the guns away and just hope that the violence doesn't occur.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
      School children don't cross roads inside classrooms. There's enough concern to go around to work at improving both.
    - Handytinge 4y ago
      > Kids should fear crossing the street more than an active shooter. And in most countries, they do.
- akomtu 4y ago
  It's true, though. If you were to live many lives in a row, when would be your first time getting shot? "News" agencies are great at distracting attention from real issues: cancer, chemicals contamination, healthcare prices.
  - ricardobayes 4y ago
    That's very true. There's an unprecedented amount of distorted news too. I never believed it until I got a worried message from a friend about wildfires in our area. There are none. I had also read an article in my local news about devastating wildfires in his area, of which there are also none at his place. These were both generally well-respected mainstream media outlets. That's not saying we shouldn't focus on climate change ASAP, but it looks to me as the news broadcasts have an agenda to keep people in fear.
    - rtp4me 4y ago
      Exactly. As I tell my son, the news organizations are no different than other vendors. They have a product to sell (fear, societal divide) and do their very best to continue selling it to the masses. And, astonishingly, people eat it up day and night. For the people who live outside the US and consume our "news", it must seem our country is falling apart. From gun violence, to wildfires, to racism, to homelessness, we truly must be living in a 3rd world country. However, my experience does not reflect any of this. Yes, these issues exist, but everyday I can go to the grocery store, put gas in my wife's car, walk downtown, take a trip to the lake, visit a neighboring town, etc - all without fear. People of differing backgrounds/colors talk pleasantly with each other, neighbors help neighbors, etc. Totally different from what the "media" is pushing these days. My advice - walk/run away from the media and don't attach yourself to any political party. Your emotional state will thank you later.
  - fleetwoodsnack 4y ago
    If the statistical relevance fails to capture the underlying practical relevance of a phenomenon, it’s usually the job of the statistician to explain why. One way is examining the dimensions of analysis. A simple counting exercise and declaring “well it’s just not relevant,” despite contradictory qualitative evidence is really simple-minded and an abuse of statistical reasoning. But this is typical of non-research thinking, in non-academic contexts so forgive me if I come off harshly.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  "My child died but I can take comfort in the fact that his death was a statistical anomaly!"
apexalpha 4y ago
>It’s like worrying about dying from a terrorist attack or a plane crash in France. The aviation sector is one of the most regulated on earth and has extreme safety standards for exactly this reason: we don't want to crash. Societies also implemented security measures after terrorist attacks. Especially after Bataclan in France. These are extremely rare events because we take measures to prevent them.
- chii 4y ago
  > Societies also implemented security measures after terrorist attacks. i would argue that those measures are costing more than the attacks themselves. It's security theater - high cost (in terms of time and resources), high visibility (politically). But doesn't really prevent any terrorist attacks, because terrorist attacks are fairly rare all things considered. So you can say that those terrorists' attack succeeded in making the lives of those they attacked worse, and it's because we let them dictate due to "fear", rather than rationally ignore them.
- Clubber 4y ago
  >These are extremely rare events because we take measures to prevent them. When you use the TSA and Patriot Act as an example of meaningful, useful legislation, you're probably not on strong footing. One is considered an expensive boondoggle jobs program, the other is tasked with illegal mass spying of US citizens and deprivation of rights. Neither shows any strong evidence of preventing terrorist acts. Its legislation like these that give gun owners pause of any "common sense" gun control solutions implemented based on emotion.
  - polypodiopsi 4y ago
    Apexalpha was talkimg about bataclan in France. The european context is super different from the US context. For example this year someone killed one person in a Amoklauf (~schoolshooting) in germany with a sports crossbow. These things will now be put under weapons regulation, and will be basically unavailable to the general public. As they should be. What does anyone really NEED, a crossbow for?
spaceman_2020 4y ago
> For school shootings, it’s rationally absurd to worry about those rare events. Rare events that only happen in America. I don't know what kind of parent looks at a rare event where their kid might die and says "yeah, I'm okay with that".
- korijn 4y ago
  You can make them extremely rare to non-existent. Why the US people do not jump at the opportunity is beyond me.
bearmode 4y ago
>Outside of that I think the bulk of gun violence is suicides and gang on gang violence. Good job those gang bullets aren't allowed to hit anything other than gang members!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaheyy 4y ago
No, school shootings are like a weekly event in the US. They are not “exceedingly rare”. Do you seriously think the traveling public would accept a plane crashing every week?

by cm2187 4y ago

scambier 4y ago

"School shootings are mathematically irrelevant", what a take.

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
Talk about normalisation of deviance! I've read that more children have died of gunshot wounds this year than police officers have died in the line of duty.[1] Granted, there are probably more school children at school than there are police at work on any given day, so ... of course children are more likely to be shot at a school? But then again, here in Australia we have reasonable gun control after that mass schooling in Tasmania all those years ago ... and the country still turned to shit ... so? While were here, anyone else got any arguments no one would intentionally make? 1. https://en.as.com/latest_news/more-children-have-died-in-school-shootings-in-2022-than-police-officers-in-the-line-of-duty-fact-check-n/ https://en.as.com/latest_news/more-children-have-died-in-sch...
- chii 4y ago
  and thousands more died due to motor traffic accidents (https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/preliminary-monthly-estimates/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/prelimina...) The outrage always happens on politically charged subjects, but worse outcomes happen on the roads, and nobody talks about it as though it was normal. Kids should fear crossing the street more than an active shooter. While i don't disagree that gun control is a good outcome, the difficulty of achieving it in the US is real. Effort is better spent addressing the root cause of gun violence, rather than attempting to take the guns away and just hope that the violence doesn't occur.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
    School children don't cross roads inside classrooms. There's enough concern to go around to work at improving both.
  - Handytinge 4y ago
    > Kids should fear crossing the street more than an active shooter. And in most countries, they do.
akomtu 4y ago
It's true, though. If you were to live many lives in a row, when would be your first time getting shot? "News" agencies are great at distracting attention from real issues: cancer, chemicals contamination, healthcare prices.
- ricardobayes 4y ago
  That's very true. There's an unprecedented amount of distorted news too. I never believed it until I got a worried message from a friend about wildfires in our area. There are none. I had also read an article in my local news about devastating wildfires in his area, of which there are also none at his place. These were both generally well-respected mainstream media outlets. That's not saying we shouldn't focus on climate change ASAP, but it looks to me as the news broadcasts have an agenda to keep people in fear.
  - rtp4me 4y ago
    Exactly. As I tell my son, the news organizations are no different than other vendors. They have a product to sell (fear, societal divide) and do their very best to continue selling it to the masses. And, astonishingly, people eat it up day and night. For the people who live outside the US and consume our "news", it must seem our country is falling apart. From gun violence, to wildfires, to racism, to homelessness, we truly must be living in a 3rd world country. However, my experience does not reflect any of this. Yes, these issues exist, but everyday I can go to the grocery store, put gas in my wife's car, walk downtown, take a trip to the lake, visit a neighboring town, etc - all without fear. People of differing backgrounds/colors talk pleasantly with each other, neighbors help neighbors, etc. Totally different from what the "media" is pushing these days. My advice - walk/run away from the media and don't attach yourself to any political party. Your emotional state will thank you later.
- fleetwoodsnack 4y ago
  If the statistical relevance fails to capture the underlying practical relevance of a phenomenon, it’s usually the job of the statistician to explain why. One way is examining the dimensions of analysis. A simple counting exercise and declaring “well it’s just not relevant,” despite contradictory qualitative evidence is really simple-minded and an abuse of statistical reasoning. But this is typical of non-research thinking, in non-academic contexts so forgive me if I come off harshly.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
"My child died but I can take comfort in the fact that his death was a statistical anomaly!"

apexalpha 4y ago

>It’s like worrying about dying from a terrorist attack or a plane crash in France. The aviation sector is one of the most regulated on earth and has extreme safety standards for exactly this reason: we don't want to crash. Societies also implemented security measures after terrorist attacks. Especially after Bataclan in France. These are extremely rare events because we take measures to prevent them.

chii 4y ago
> Societies also implemented security measures after terrorist attacks. i would argue that those measures are costing more than the attacks themselves. It's security theater - high cost (in terms of time and resources), high visibility (politically). But doesn't really prevent any terrorist attacks, because terrorist attacks are fairly rare all things considered. So you can say that those terrorists' attack succeeded in making the lives of those they attacked worse, and it's because we let them dictate due to "fear", rather than rationally ignore them.
Clubber 4y ago
>These are extremely rare events because we take measures to prevent them. When you use the TSA and Patriot Act as an example of meaningful, useful legislation, you're probably not on strong footing. One is considered an expensive boondoggle jobs program, the other is tasked with illegal mass spying of US citizens and deprivation of rights. Neither shows any strong evidence of preventing terrorist acts. Its legislation like these that give gun owners pause of any "common sense" gun control solutions implemented based on emotion.
- polypodiopsi 4y ago
  Apexalpha was talkimg about bataclan in France. The european context is super different from the US context. For example this year someone killed one person in a Amoklauf (~schoolshooting) in germany with a sports crossbow. These things will now be put under weapons regulation, and will be basically unavailable to the general public. As they should be. What does anyone really NEED, a crossbow for?

spaceman_2020 4y ago

> For school shootings, it’s rationally absurd to worry about those rare events. Rare events that only happen in America. I don't know what kind of parent looks at a rare event where their kid might die and says "yeah, I'm okay with that".

korijn 4y ago
You can make them extremely rare to non-existent. Why the US people do not jump at the opportunity is beyond me.

bearmode 4y ago

>Outside of that I think the bulk of gun violence is suicides and gang on gang violence. Good job those gang bullets aren't allowed to hit anything other than gang members!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaheyy 4y ago

No, school shootings are like a weekly event in the US. They are not “exceedingly rare”. Do you seriously think the traveling public would accept a plane crashing every week?