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There’s no convincing evidence that discussing medical aspects of mental health is productive on HN. Currently my comment that I’m alive has been downvoted at l

There’s no convincing evidence that discussing medical aspects of mental health is productive on HN. Currently my comment that I’m alive has been downvoted at least half a dozen times because I had the temerity to still be alive, be glad to say so, be grateful for my psychiatric care, and reject that any of that is “suspect”. This isn’t the place to discuss psychiatry. Talk to your doctor.

Etheryte 4y ago
Have you considered that your comment may have been downvoted because you come across unnecessarily hostile, not because of some absurd attack on your person? Similarly, any space is a good space to discuss and spread awareness on mental health — even if only one person finds an idea to help them, whatever their situation may be, it's already a massive positive.
- irjustin 4y ago
  > because you come across unnecessarily hostile And possibly justified. A lot of us are armchair psychiatrist from reading articles. OP that you're replying to lives this type of medication and attributes being alive right now to it while a lot of us who have only read articles sit and debate. A number of these comments can come across as "just eat healthier" to an overweight person or "don't be sad".
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - im3w1l 4y ago
    About 15% of American adults are currently on antidepressants. I tried but failed to find how many people ever used it. But it goes without saying that it should be be even higher. In other words, antidepressant use is very common and many people will be drawing on personal experience. That might not feel comfortable divulging that about themselves.
_moof 4y ago
Indeed. And I can't help but notice that every discussion is rife with people singing the praises of psychedelics, but TMS is never, ever mentioned. If people were genuinely interested in alternatives to SSRIs for the sake of efficacy, you'd think an FDA-approved, non-pharmaceutical, non-invasive treatment would come up at least once.
- Negitivefrags 4y ago
  TMS gives me the creeps. I mean ultimately you are inducing current in the brain with magnetic fields. It boils down to the same mechanism of action as electro-shock therapy. Presumably with a lot less destruction of neurons of course. Now electro-shock is one of the most effective at treating depression, and I guess that might be why TMS might be effective too. But I think the reason I ultimately wouldn’t do it is just that it feels like physically altering my brain and it’s a hard pill to swallow. Just like I would be hard pressed to accept a treatment like someone surgically excising a chunk of my brain matter even if a doctor told me it was 100% effective as a cure. Perhaps this is irrational but I just can’t shake it.
mlang79 4y ago
Complaining about being downvoted on a related topic are not productive either.
pjc50 4y ago
HN is only really great on technical issues. Everything else suffers from Engineer's Disease, where a person who has read half a dozen articles suddenly imagines they know a complete discipline. This thread is a prime example of "my googling trumps your life experience". That said, in countries where pharmaceutical manufacturers are allowed to market prescription medicines, and one was recently convicted for pushing addictive substances on huge numbers of people, a certain amount of skepticism may be warranted. ("medicine X saved my life" and "a large number of people who don't get any real benefit for medicine X are being sold it" and "medicine X may have extremely bad side effects for some people" may co-exist, as well)
- ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  I think this 'Engineer's disease' is just what society is now. Everyone thinks they know about everything, because they read something online/have access to google. Everyone is an expert. You have people arguing very strongly about things they know nothing about and sometimes if you actually know anything about it, it's painful to read just how bad some of the things people are saying, being a logical person, I try to point out what they are saying doesn't make sense, but it's wasted because that person just doubles down on whatever it is that they believe. The most powerful lesson from noticing this effect and the hardest thing to do, is not actually taking that step back and just not getting involved, it's also in realising that i'm likely doing that too, so it's better to try and step back and approach such comments with a more curious and open mind, rather than one of thinking i'm an expert.
benevol 4y ago
It's not that anti-depressants shouldn't be an available choice. It's that natural remedies such as psilocybin and LSD which have proven their worth for a very, very long time are still being blocked by you-know-which industry.
- grapeskin 4y ago
  As much as I think LSD helps, I don't think it's ever been found naturally. It's synthesized.
bluecalm 4y ago
Doctors aren't some magical people who know everything. They read the same books and studies available to you. They have their own biases, not much time for an individual patient. They often stopped educating themselves once reality of long work hours set in. Just talk to you doctor might the worst popular advice on the Internet. My experience is the opposite: until you take matters in your own hands, experiment with various treatments and preferably find an open minded doctor who is willing to help you along the way (not only with advice but mainly with providing access to medication) it will not work. It might work if your problem is simple and typical but it won't otherwise. The reason is obvious: you are likely as smart as your doctor. They might have more experience and general knowledge but they have an hour (if you're very lucky) for you and you have all the time in the world to catch up and figure it out. Yeah, talk to doctors if you're the kind of person who drifts to homeopathy or other shamanism but please don't solely rely on them when it comes to your health of you have a bit of a brain.
epups 4y ago
For every successful case as yours, there are many people suffering due to side effects that might include suicide. Therefore, your anecdotal evidence is of limited value, even though - gladly! - your treatment worked for you.
dang 4y ago
Please don't post offtopic flamewar comments, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. It just makes everything worse. Also, please don't go on about downvotes. That's in the site guidelines too: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: I assume you're talking about https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161183, which was correctly downvoted for being a flamewar comment. Please don't post comments like that or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161488 or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161557 to HN.
- adamwk 4y ago
  Why is this an off topic flame war comment but “I’m too tired to write a paragraph but SSRIs kill” is fine? The moderation here rewards engineer’s disease where we first principling our way to warning people to ignore Dr.’s suggestions as long as everyone’s smiling at each other. It’s like an anti-vax YouTube video where any dissenting opinion is flagged until mods give up and remove it from the front page. It’s the same thing with abortion or anything else that isn’t a Rust article.
  - dang 4y ago
    Yes, that was also a bad comment. It wasn't aggressive to other users, though, which is an important difference from a moderation point of view. HN is an internet watercooler. People come here to have casual, curious conversations. That requires being allowed to be wrong, to think out loud, to shoot the shit, to exchange. Imposing some sort of correctness requirement, besides being impossible (how on earth would we enforce such a thing without a truth meter?), would kill conversation and therefore kill the forum. You guys are overgeneralizing based on seeing comments you dislike. I understand (believe me I understand) how frustrating that is, but there are just as many people who agree with you, probably more. The fact that there's a range of views here is normal, inevitable, and fine. HN has always operated on the principle that readers are smart enough to make up their own minds, i.e. to find their way through internet bullshit however they choose to do so. I don't see any reason to change that operating principle.

Etheryte 4y ago

Have you considered that your comment may have been downvoted because you come across unnecessarily hostile, not because of some absurd attack on your person? Similarly, any space is a good space to discuss and spread awareness on mental health — even if only one person finds an idea to help them, whatever their situation may be, it's already a massive positive.

irjustin 4y ago
> because you come across unnecessarily hostile And possibly justified. A lot of us are armchair psychiatrist from reading articles. OP that you're replying to lives this type of medication and attributes being alive right now to it while a lot of us who have only read articles sit and debate. A number of these comments can come across as "just eat healthier" to an overweight person or "don't be sad".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- im3w1l 4y ago
  About 15% of American adults are currently on antidepressants. I tried but failed to find how many people ever used it. But it goes without saying that it should be be even higher. In other words, antidepressant use is very common and many people will be drawing on personal experience. That might not feel comfortable divulging that about themselves.

_moof 4y ago

Indeed. And I can't help but notice that every discussion is rife with people singing the praises of psychedelics, but TMS is never, ever mentioned. If people were genuinely interested in alternatives to SSRIs for the sake of efficacy, you'd think an FDA-approved, non-pharmaceutical, non-invasive treatment would come up at least once.

Negitivefrags 4y ago
TMS gives me the creeps. I mean ultimately you are inducing current in the brain with magnetic fields. It boils down to the same mechanism of action as electro-shock therapy. Presumably with a lot less destruction of neurons of course. Now electro-shock is one of the most effective at treating depression, and I guess that might be why TMS might be effective too. But I think the reason I ultimately wouldn’t do it is just that it feels like physically altering my brain and it’s a hard pill to swallow. Just like I would be hard pressed to accept a treatment like someone surgically excising a chunk of my brain matter even if a doctor told me it was 100% effective as a cure. Perhaps this is irrational but I just can’t shake it.

mlang79 4y ago

Complaining about being downvoted on a related topic are not productive either.

pjc50 4y ago

HN is only really great on technical issues. Everything else suffers from Engineer's Disease, where a person who has read half a dozen articles suddenly imagines they know a complete discipline. This thread is a prime example of "my googling trumps your life experience". That said, in countries where pharmaceutical manufacturers are allowed to market prescription medicines, and one was recently convicted for pushing addictive substances on huge numbers of people, a certain amount of skepticism may be warranted. ("medicine X saved my life" and "a large number of people who don't get any real benefit for medicine X are being sold it" and "medicine X may have extremely bad side effects for some people" may co-exist, as well)

ChildOfChaos 4y ago
I think this 'Engineer's disease' is just what society is now. Everyone thinks they know about everything, because they read something online/have access to google. Everyone is an expert. You have people arguing very strongly about things they know nothing about and sometimes if you actually know anything about it, it's painful to read just how bad some of the things people are saying, being a logical person, I try to point out what they are saying doesn't make sense, but it's wasted because that person just doubles down on whatever it is that they believe. The most powerful lesson from noticing this effect and the hardest thing to do, is not actually taking that step back and just not getting involved, it's also in realising that i'm likely doing that too, so it's better to try and step back and approach such comments with a more curious and open mind, rather than one of thinking i'm an expert.

benevol 4y ago

It's not that anti-depressants shouldn't be an available choice. It's that natural remedies such as psilocybin and LSD which have proven their worth for a very, very long time are still being blocked by you-know-which industry.

grapeskin 4y ago
As much as I think LSD helps, I don't think it's ever been found naturally. It's synthesized.

bluecalm 4y ago

Doctors aren't some magical people who know everything. They read the same books and studies available to you. They have their own biases, not much time for an individual patient. They often stopped educating themselves once reality of long work hours set in. Just talk to you doctor might the worst popular advice on the Internet. My experience is the opposite: until you take matters in your own hands, experiment with various treatments and preferably find an open minded doctor who is willing to help you along the way (not only with advice but mainly with providing access to medication) it will not work. It might work if your problem is simple and typical but it won't otherwise. The reason is obvious: you are likely as smart as your doctor. They might have more experience and general knowledge but they have an hour (if you're very lucky) for you and you have all the time in the world to catch up and figure it out. Yeah, talk to doctors if you're the kind of person who drifts to homeopathy or other shamanism but please don't solely rely on them when it comes to your health of you have a bit of a brain.

epups 4y ago

For every successful case as yours, there are many people suffering due to side effects that might include suicide. Therefore, your anecdotal evidence is of limited value, even though - gladly! - your treatment worked for you.

dang 4y ago

Please don't post offtopic flamewar comments, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. It just makes everything worse. Also, please don't go on about downvotes. That's in the site guidelines too: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: I assume you're talking about https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161183, which was correctly downvoted for being a flamewar comment. Please don't post comments like that or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161488 or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161557 to HN.

adamwk 4y ago
Why is this an off topic flame war comment but “I’m too tired to write a paragraph but SSRIs kill” is fine? The moderation here rewards engineer’s disease where we first principling our way to warning people to ignore Dr.’s suggestions as long as everyone’s smiling at each other. It’s like an anti-vax YouTube video where any dissenting opinion is flagged until mods give up and remove it from the front page. It’s the same thing with abortion or anything else that isn’t a Rust article.
- dang 4y ago
  Yes, that was also a bad comment. It wasn't aggressive to other users, though, which is an important difference from a moderation point of view. HN is an internet watercooler. People come here to have casual, curious conversations. That requires being allowed to be wrong, to think out loud, to shoot the shit, to exchange. Imposing some sort of correctness requirement, besides being impossible (how on earth would we enforce such a thing without a truth meter?), would kill conversation and therefore kill the forum. You guys are overgeneralizing based on seeing comments you dislike. I understand (believe me I understand) how frustrating that is, but there are just as many people who agree with you, probably more. The fact that there's a range of views here is normal, inevitable, and fine. HN has always operated on the principle that readers are smart enough to make up their own minds, i.e. to find their way through internet bullshit however they choose to do so. I don't see any reason to change that operating principle.