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Come on there is nothing untoxic about telling a newcomer they don't belong. At best this person may not have ramped up at the same speed. There are much be

Come on there is nothing untoxic about telling a newcomer they don't belong. At best this person may not have ramped up at the same speed. There are much better ways of giving this feedback instead of being hostile no? What you now want this new employee to walk in eggshells from this moment onwards?

listenallyall 4y ago
Yea, no. Been in numerous situations where it was painfully obvious, within a week, that a certain individual was fundamentally a poor fit. It's not that they are bad people or incapable of any good work, just not in the role or company they were hired into. Sometimes it's better to sever ties quickly, than have the employee remain miserable trying to make it work at a company he or she will never sync up with, and the existing team losing steam and getting frustrated as it is dragged down.
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  This individual was not in my chain of command. If you're not my boss, then you have no right to threaten my job status as a coworker. That is fundamentally abusive and manipulative and is textbook harassment meant to intimidate and cause fear. There's nothing constructive about it.
- flashgordon 4y ago
  I am struggling to picture this - there is no indication this Architect was the person's manager. The manager is the one who should be the one giving feedback based on observation and evidence and not just gut feel. Onboarding takes time - especially at bigcos the stack is so inhouse and complex no way even the most senior person (this person didtn seem so) takes atleast O(weeks) if not O(months). Even if the architect had some authority (and evidence) to provide feedback this just looks like a prison ritual of intimidation/hazing. How is this acceptable? Also (and the OP could be hiding info) there doesnt seem to be any indication of this being a cultural issue - unless the OP did something so in-your-face illegal/offensive. Again the point is not to dissect what the OP did/did not do but really - what happened to welcoming and being kind to your colleagues?
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    I'd just say there are two sides to every story, and we've only heard one, vaguely. I'm not saying the architect guy was definitely right or justified, but, having seen various workplace conflicts, I'm not going to automatically condemn him or the company based on the OP's version of the story only.
- kasey_junk 4y ago
  If someone is not a good fit it’s their managers job to fix the issue. Professionally and without impugning someone’s abilities. Telling someone that they aren’t good enough to work at a company is a level of unprofessional that puts the whole company in question. If they put someone that bad in a position of responsibility the most likely scenario is the company is a clown car. If you think you can tell someone that you are most likely a clown.
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    And if the manager can't fix it? And if existing colleagues are repeatedly complaining about the quality of the new person's work product? If people are having to repeatedly stay late or cancel vacation days to re-do the new person's tasks? Idealism is great, but most of us work in the real world.
    - kasey_junk 4y ago
      The manager fires the person, professionally and without attacking the person. You do this by citing specific instances of things that are the cause of the firing. All of those things are things that the manager has previously discussed with the person and helped them improve. This is manager 101 stuff. Further, if I were a manager and found out another employee told my employee they didn’t belong at the company I’d make it my business to ensure that behavior was addressed by the persons manager. Because it’s absolutely clown shoes. And given your implication that I don’t work in the “real world”, I’ve been working as a software professional for over 2 decades in everything from valley darling startups to rough and tumble prop trading firms. The behavior mentioned wouldn’t have been tolerated at any of them.
      - listenallyall 4y ago
        You really have a thing for clowns... When you post a comment where the only possible outcome is not just positive, but Hollywood film stuff (protagonist is struggling in a new situation and gets bullied, boss/friend/wise elder shows him path to success, protagonist is triumphant over the bully -- literally the exact plot of Karate Kid, Rocky III, Die Hard and countless others), then it reads as idealistic. Your next comment, where you finally acknowledge that not everything is fixable and firing might be an outcome, is a lot more reasonable.

listenallyall 4y ago

Yea, no. Been in numerous situations where it was painfully obvious, within a week, that a certain individual was fundamentally a poor fit. It's not that they are bad people or incapable of any good work, just not in the role or company they were hired into. Sometimes it's better to sever ties quickly, than have the employee remain miserable trying to make it work at a company he or she will never sync up with, and the existing team losing steam and getting frustrated as it is dragged down.

thr0wawayf00 4y ago
This individual was not in my chain of command. If you're not my boss, then you have no right to threaten my job status as a coworker. That is fundamentally abusive and manipulative and is textbook harassment meant to intimidate and cause fear. There's nothing constructive about it.
flashgordon 4y ago
I am struggling to picture this - there is no indication this Architect was the person's manager. The manager is the one who should be the one giving feedback based on observation and evidence and not just gut feel. Onboarding takes time - especially at bigcos the stack is so inhouse and complex no way even the most senior person (this person didtn seem so) takes atleast O(weeks) if not O(months). Even if the architect had some authority (and evidence) to provide feedback this just looks like a prison ritual of intimidation/hazing. How is this acceptable? Also (and the OP could be hiding info) there doesnt seem to be any indication of this being a cultural issue - unless the OP did something so in-your-face illegal/offensive. Again the point is not to dissect what the OP did/did not do but really - what happened to welcoming and being kind to your colleagues?
- listenallyall 4y ago
  I'd just say there are two sides to every story, and we've only heard one, vaguely. I'm not saying the architect guy was definitely right or justified, but, having seen various workplace conflicts, I'm not going to automatically condemn him or the company based on the OP's version of the story only.
kasey_junk 4y ago
If someone is not a good fit it’s their managers job to fix the issue. Professionally and without impugning someone’s abilities. Telling someone that they aren’t good enough to work at a company is a level of unprofessional that puts the whole company in question. If they put someone that bad in a position of responsibility the most likely scenario is the company is a clown car. If you think you can tell someone that you are most likely a clown.
- listenallyall 4y ago
  And if the manager can't fix it? And if existing colleagues are repeatedly complaining about the quality of the new person's work product? If people are having to repeatedly stay late or cancel vacation days to re-do the new person's tasks? Idealism is great, but most of us work in the real world.
  - kasey_junk 4y ago
    The manager fires the person, professionally and without attacking the person. You do this by citing specific instances of things that are the cause of the firing. All of those things are things that the manager has previously discussed with the person and helped them improve. This is manager 101 stuff. Further, if I were a manager and found out another employee told my employee they didn’t belong at the company I’d make it my business to ensure that behavior was addressed by the persons manager. Because it’s absolutely clown shoes. And given your implication that I don’t work in the “real world”, I’ve been working as a software professional for over 2 decades in everything from valley darling startups to rough and tumble prop trading firms. The behavior mentioned wouldn’t have been tolerated at any of them.
    - listenallyall 4y ago
      You really have a thing for clowns... When you post a comment where the only possible outcome is not just positive, but Hollywood film stuff (protagonist is struggling in a new situation and gets bullied, boss/friend/wise elder shows him path to success, protagonist is triumphant over the bully -- literally the exact plot of Karate Kid, Rocky III, Die Hard and countless others), then it reads as idealistic. Your next comment, where you finally acknowledge that not everything is fixable and firing might be an outcome, is a lot more reasonable.