7 ms·

M2 MacBook Air Teardown: Apple Forgot the Heatsink?

38 points by rc00 4y ago

bgdkbtv 4y ago
Perhaps may not be as big of a problem given how efficient the chip is and also the fact that the latest iPhones have huge computational power all with passive cooling. Also, iirc aliminium chassis acts as a heatsink.
- rowanG077 4y ago
  If you look at some basic tests you can see it quickly heats up to about 105 degrees Celsius. And leading to degraded performance. And that is without even touching the GPU. I honestly was really excited about the M series. But it seems Apple is going down the exact some route they did with Intel. Massively underperforming in the thermal department. I pray this is an outlier. Or at the very least the pro series will not have this problem again.
  - bgdkbtv 4y ago
    Yeah seems that way. It sucks because I was seriously considering this machine, but it looks like Apple made this machine to just push more people towards their Pro line up.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      Apple made this machine for those who want a laptop that doesn’t need sustained heavy workloads, I.e. most people in the general population.
      - bgdkbtv 4y ago
        Yeah that's me lol, my 2015 tbMBP is only used for watching movies and replying to emails. For everything else there is a desktop
      - justsomehnguy 4y ago
        >most people in the general population. And we have a winner! It's quite surprising (well actually it's not) what there are many people who thinks what Apple does things for their use case, which is usually something like recompiling Chrome or something.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      By all means list the 5+ minute long sustained workloads that ordinary people are running on their laptops. The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here.
      - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        > The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here. It's not about Apple being unreasonable. It's just that what you call "Pro use cases" could reasonably be done with the Air if it had slightly better thermal management in the same way an iPad Pro running macOs could replace a current MacBook Air. Apple likes to use these design decisions to segment its markets.
        _aavaa_ 4y ago
        Yes, that's the point. The Air is targeted at the people who don't need to do those things and would rather the laptop be smaller and lighter. A MacBook Air with better thermal management is an entry level MacBook Pro.
        WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        No, that's not the point. The Air is intentionally gimped by inefficient thermal management so people who want better performance have to buy a Pro. Apple could make the Air performs close to the entry level MacBook Pro but doesn't because that's how they segment. They have been quite good at introducing products which can compete on price while protecting their higher margin sales. It's a very common practice for Apple. In the same way their laptop and tablet offerings have been converging for years from a technical point of view but they intentionally limit what the tablet can do so has to not cannibalise their laptop sales.
        Tagbert 4y ago
        If you prioritize sustained load performance, then the pro machines are designed for that. If you have less need for that or don't care about a mild slowdown on the rare occasions where you can push it into throttle territory, then the Air would be good for you. I would gladly trade away some maximum performance in order to get a cheaper, lighter machine that doesn't need a fan blowing. This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers.
- coffee_beqn 4y ago
  It’s not really a efficient heat sink since it’s just a big slab with no fins to actually cool itself down. Now it’ll heat up the whole chassis and then stay hot. It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis (like with direct contact and thermal paste)
  - dev_tty01 4y ago
    No, a small finned heat sink with no air movement would be worse. They are spreading out the heat to move it out via a large surface area of the metal case. I'm guessing the paste wouldn't help much since the heat flow density is fairly low. Think of it this way, the thermal resistance per sq mm is relatively high, but the total parallel thermal resistance is still very low because of the large area. Don't forget, this machine is focused on the consumer mass market, not the high performance market. It will never break a sweat for the vast majority of typical use cases. Even when throttling a little bit, it still vastly outperforms the Intel MB Air it replaces. Get a 14" MB Pro if you really want incredible thermal performance.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - threeseed 4y ago
    > It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis It's not supposed to be connected. You are describing the hack that some people do where they add a thermal bridge between the two. Yes you get better performance but at the cost of serious injuries due to the significantly increased heat being directed to your lap.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  Apple has said that they explicitly are not using the chassis to cool the chips as that would transfer too much heat to the human operator. They didn't "forget the heatsink". This MBA was design for tasks and usage that most of us do that do not involve simultaneous FCP renders of 8K video and 3D rendering. If you are doing that, you might want to look at the MB Pro. The rest of us don't need to worry about it.
  - schwartzworld 4y ago
    Weird. I have a 2 year old MBP that gets turns it's fans on when I open slack and intellij at the same time.
    - Tagbert 4y ago
      Yes, that will happen with any of the Intel MBPs. That was one of the best benefits of moving to Apple Silicon SOCs. It takes a lot more load to get them hot.
GeekyBear 4y ago
Here's a review of a Lenovo's new thin and light Thinkpad X1 Yoga with Intel's current gen flagship laptop CPU: >Unfortunately, the laptop got uncomfortably hot in its Best performance mode during testing, even with light workloads. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/07/review-lenovos-thinkpad-x1-yoga-gen-7-looks-good-but-feels-warm/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/07/review-lenovos-think... This is a laptop with two fans that cannot be used comfortably, even for light workloads, without being set to throttle all the time. A fanless laptop that throttles under sustained load is perfectly normal. A laptop with active cooling that is too hot for light use until you configure it to always throttle is not.
- MrFoof 4y ago
  In the case of the Intel i7-1280P in the Lenovo, it's not entirely surprising that it heats up. Under Tau it can draw 64W if allowed to, per Intel ARK. That's on par with a mid-range AMD desktop CPU -- a Ryzen 5600X pulls 67.2W flat out. Apple's M1 Max capped at about 39.7W, and the M1 Pro was around 33.6W. So the M2 getting hot isn't surprising since it's likely in the 25-30W range. I agree that 25+ watts is a lot of heat to dissipate given the design of its thermal solution.
- TowerTall 4y ago
  I have the previous version (gen 6) and I can confirm the heat problems. You can not watch a 4k movie and charge it at the same time. Soon after you plug in the charging cable the upper left corner of the computer will be so hot that you (almost) can burn yourself. When that happen the computer will slow down to the point where it is not really usable. At this point you can turn the computer upside down to allow the back side of the computer to cool down (get some air). After a few minutes it has cooled down sufficient to that you can continue using the computer and charge it at the same time, but shortly after you will have to repeat this. If think the backside of metal case get so hot that not enough hot air cannot escape. If you can place the computer in any position that allows air to flow over the back side of the case everything works, but placed on a table or similar you have severe thermal issues if you charge it at the same time at the same time you do anything mildly CPU intensive.
IronWolve 4y ago
Someone could make a replacement bottom with fans, heatsink, replacement speakers, thermal paste, etc.
- threeseed 4y ago
  Or just buy the 13 inch M2 MacBook Pro or previous M1 version. At least then you won't void your warranty.
  - JofArnold 4y ago
    The M2 MBP has terrible heat management issues also.
    - Tagbert 4y ago
      but is it really "terrible"? From the videos that I saw, once you got past the headline and saw the result, yet, if you pushed really heavy loads it would start throttling. when that happened, it would slow down. in most cases that slowing was not unusable. Unless you plan to do a lot of that kind of process, then it should not be a problem, If you do a lot of that, then you would want the real pro machines, the 14/16" MBPs. That 13" is still a placeholder with the old chassis and old cooling system and is only "pro" in the broadest of definitions.
charlie0 4y ago
Seems accurate. My understanding is the Pro versions always come with a better cooling solution than Air

38 points by rc00 4y ago

Perhaps may not be as big of a problem given how efficient the chip is and also the fact that the latest iPhones have huge computational power all with passive cooling. Also, iirc aliminium chassis acts as a heatsink.

rowanG077 4y ago
If you look at some basic tests you can see it quickly heats up to about 105 degrees Celsius. And leading to degraded performance. And that is without even touching the GPU. I honestly was really excited about the M series. But it seems Apple is going down the exact some route they did with Intel. Massively underperforming in the thermal department. I pray this is an outlier. Or at the very least the pro series will not have this problem again.
- bgdkbtv 4y ago
  Yeah seems that way. It sucks because I was seriously considering this machine, but it looks like Apple made this machine to just push more people towards their Pro line up.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    Apple made this machine for those who want a laptop that doesn’t need sustained heavy workloads, I.e. most people in the general population.
    - bgdkbtv 4y ago
      Yeah that's me lol, my 2015 tbMBP is only used for watching movies and replying to emails. For everything else there is a desktop
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      >most people in the general population. And we have a winner! It's quite surprising (well actually it's not) what there are many people who thinks what Apple does things for their use case, which is usually something like recompiling Chrome or something.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    By all means list the 5+ minute long sustained workloads that ordinary people are running on their laptops. The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      > The only use cases for which the MBA is not sustainable are Pro ones e.g. 3D rendering, CFDs etc so it's hard to see how Apple is being unreasonable here. It's not about Apple being unreasonable. It's just that what you call "Pro use cases" could reasonably be done with the Air if it had slightly better thermal management in the same way an iPad Pro running macOs could replace a current MacBook Air. Apple likes to use these design decisions to segment its markets.
      - _aavaa_ 4y ago
        Yes, that's the point. The Air is targeted at the people who don't need to do those things and would rather the laptop be smaller and lighter. A MacBook Air with better thermal management is an entry level MacBook Pro.
        WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        No, that's not the point. The Air is intentionally gimped by inefficient thermal management so people who want better performance have to buy a Pro. Apple could make the Air performs close to the entry level MacBook Pro but doesn't because that's how they segment. They have been quite good at introducing products which can compete on price while protecting their higher margin sales. It's a very common practice for Apple. In the same way their laptop and tablet offerings have been converging for years from a technical point of view but they intentionally limit what the tablet can do so has to not cannibalise their laptop sales.
        Tagbert 4y ago
        If you prioritize sustained load performance, then the pro machines are designed for that. If you have less need for that or don't care about a mild slowdown on the rare occasions where you can push it into throttle territory, then the Air would be good for you. I would gladly trade away some maximum performance in order to get a cheaper, lighter machine that doesn't need a fan blowing. This is not about "gimping" the Air. it is about tailoring the balance of features, performance, and cost to meet the needs of different segments of customers.
coffee_beqn 4y ago
It’s not really a efficient heat sink since it’s just a big slab with no fins to actually cool itself down. Now it’ll heat up the whole chassis and then stay hot. It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis (like with direct contact and thermal paste)
- dev_tty01 4y ago
  No, a small finned heat sink with no air movement would be worse. They are spreading out the heat to move it out via a large surface area of the metal case. I'm guessing the paste wouldn't help much since the heat flow density is fairly low. Think of it this way, the thermal resistance per sq mm is relatively high, but the total parallel thermal resistance is still very low because of the large area. Don't forget, this machine is focused on the consumer mass market, not the high performance market. It will never break a sweat for the vast majority of typical use cases. Even when throttling a little bit, it still vastly outperforms the Intel MB Air it replaces. Get a 14" MB Pro if you really want incredible thermal performance.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- threeseed 4y ago
  > It also doesn’t look like the metal piece on top of the CPU is seriously connected to the chassis It's not supposed to be connected. You are describing the hack that some people do where they add a thermal bridge between the two. Yes you get better performance but at the cost of serious injuries due to the significantly increased heat being directed to your lap.
Tagbert 4y ago
Apple has said that they explicitly are not using the chassis to cool the chips as that would transfer too much heat to the human operator. They didn't "forget the heatsink". This MBA was design for tasks and usage that most of us do that do not involve simultaneous FCP renders of 8K video and 3D rendering. If you are doing that, you might want to look at the MB Pro. The rest of us don't need to worry about it.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  Weird. I have a 2 year old MBP that gets turns it's fans on when I open slack and intellij at the same time.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    Yes, that will happen with any of the Intel MBPs. That was one of the best benefits of moving to Apple Silicon SOCs. It takes a lot more load to get them hot.

GeekyBear 4y ago

Here's a review of a Lenovo's new thin and light Thinkpad X1 Yoga with Intel's current gen flagship laptop CPU: >Unfortunately, the laptop got uncomfortably hot in its Best performance mode during testing, even with light workloads. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/07/review-lenovos-thinkpad-x1-yoga-gen-7-looks-good-but-feels-warm/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/07/review-lenovos-think... This is a laptop with two fans that cannot be used comfortably, even for light workloads, without being set to throttle all the time. A fanless laptop that throttles under sustained load is perfectly normal. A laptop with active cooling that is too hot for light use until you configure it to always throttle is not.

MrFoof 4y ago
In the case of the Intel i7-1280P in the Lenovo, it's not entirely surprising that it heats up. Under Tau it can draw 64W if allowed to, per Intel ARK. That's on par with a mid-range AMD desktop CPU -- a Ryzen 5600X pulls 67.2W flat out. Apple's M1 Max capped at about 39.7W, and the M1 Pro was around 33.6W. So the M2 getting hot isn't surprising since it's likely in the 25-30W range. I agree that 25+ watts is a lot of heat to dissipate given the design of its thermal solution.
TowerTall 4y ago
I have the previous version (gen 6) and I can confirm the heat problems. You can not watch a 4k movie and charge it at the same time. Soon after you plug in the charging cable the upper left corner of the computer will be so hot that you (almost) can burn yourself. When that happen the computer will slow down to the point where it is not really usable. At this point you can turn the computer upside down to allow the back side of the computer to cool down (get some air). After a few minutes it has cooled down sufficient to that you can continue using the computer and charge it at the same time, but shortly after you will have to repeat this. If think the backside of metal case get so hot that not enough hot air cannot escape. If you can place the computer in any position that allows air to flow over the back side of the case everything works, but placed on a table or similar you have severe thermal issues if you charge it at the same time at the same time you do anything mildly CPU intensive.

IronWolve 4y ago

Someone could make a replacement bottom with fans, heatsink, replacement speakers, thermal paste, etc.

threeseed 4y ago
Or just buy the 13 inch M2 MacBook Pro or previous M1 version. At least then you won't void your warranty.
- JofArnold 4y ago
  The M2 MBP has terrible heat management issues also.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    but is it really "terrible"? From the videos that I saw, once you got past the headline and saw the result, yet, if you pushed really heavy loads it would start throttling. when that happened, it would slow down. in most cases that slowing was not unusable. Unless you plan to do a lot of that kind of process, then it should not be a problem, If you do a lot of that, then you would want the real pro machines, the 14/16" MBPs. That 13" is still a placeholder with the old chassis and old cooling system and is only "pro" in the broadest of definitions.

charlie0 4y ago

Seems accurate. My understanding is the Pro versions always come with a better cooling solution than Air