5 ms·

This news is far from being accurate. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2806250 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2806250

espeed 15y ago
Regardless if its billionaires in yuan or dollars, if there is a sentiment in China that the wealthy are being killed, it could fuel the desire to leave.
- wisty 15y ago
  I'd expect a number of extremely rich Chinese oligarchs have been shot for treason, as some forms of corruption are punishable by the death penalty. There's a lot of really nasty shit that happens in China. Babies dying from additives to their milk formula, organs being stolen, farmers being driven off communes to build illegal factories, outright theft of government funds and property ... none of it is really sanctioned. When the officials who set themselves up as feudal lords get busted, they can go down hard. Even if their superiors were previously turning a blind eye, if it hits Weibo (the Chinese Twitter) then things can get ugly.
  - chaostheory 15y ago
    > outright theft of government funds and property Yeah most of that ends up in North America. imo They tend to buy housing in cash for their children mostly in either Vancouver or the Bay Area.
    - wisty 15y ago
      A lot of it stays in China. Officials may have a large unofficial income source (or two), which they spend on wine, women, and Karaoke (none of which officially existed, just like the money they used to pay for it, so there's no explaining to do); or food (you'll never meet a Chinese who won't think a good $500 meal isn't worth it). Or they channel some to their spouse. A few big fish will grab a staggeringly huge amount, then run. We are talking huge amounts here, though, not a Chinese millionaire looking for a house for their kids. There's a total of $120 billion missing, taken by an estimated 16,000 officials. Only the poorer ones will be buying what you would describe as a "house". I'd think most of the Chinese buying houses for their kids are essentially legit businessmen. They probably use cash because Chinese just hate debt. They also see it as an investment, because houses are some of the only things Chinese trust - they see shares as giving a total stranger your money to play with, in the hopes that he gives you more back (I mean, have you seen what US CEOs get paid?).
      - talentdeficit 15y ago
        That's only 7.5 million per corrupt official, which is about the cost of the houses they buy in Shaughnessy, North Vancouver and Point Grey.
        chaostheory 15y ago
        From the ones that I know of, they are at least $1 million USD and up.
        anigbrowl 15y ago
        Assume a Pareto distribution; it's usually a good bet.
      - chaostheory 15y ago
        > I'd think most of the Chinese buying houses for their kids are essentially legit businessmen. Not the instances that I know of. They are corrupt Chinese gov officials using embezzled money on homes that typically cost 1-4 million USD (mostly in the 2's from what I've seen).
    - r00fus 15y ago
      It also gets laundered through Hong Kong (mostly Lantau) through gambling (a good reason to be against gambling in general - it's a very well known way to launder money)
    - redthrowaway 15y ago
      As a Vancouverite, I can confirm this. The only reason our housing bubble didn't pop with everyone else's is the continued influx of large amounts of capital from (principally) China. Check out http://www.crackshackormansion.com/part2.html http://www.crackshackormansion.com/part2.html to see how bad it's gotten.
  - buss 15y ago
    Right, I think most of these deaths are due to corruption charges. One of the many weird things about China is that corruption is officially illegal, punishable by death, and yet every powerful business person or government official is corrupt by the letter of the law (favors for family, accepting bribes, favoring business that give them money). It's just the way their society has been for a long time. It's such a dangerous political climate because you can't escape the corruption, so the party can bring you down at any moment if you start being a problem for them. edit: I should have read the article first. Only some of the deaths are from official corruption charges. The rest I can't say for sure.
    - deleted 15y ago
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    - deleted 15y ago
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- reitzensteinm 15y ago
  It's actually hundred millionaires in yuan - $15m or so. http://www.hindustantimes.com/72-millionaires-die-young-in-China-report/Article1-724560.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/72-millionaires-die-young-in-C...
- cma 15y ago
  There is a death penalty in China for trying to form a labor union (and people said American labor unions opposed "free trade" agreements with China out of pure selfishness...). Anyway, there's a complex mix of people in China afraid of being killed.
  - jhancock 15y ago
    Really? Can you point to a death penalty being applied for such a case? I'm not saying your wrong, but its the first I've heard of such thing. I have seen cases where the PRC has protected the rights of workers to form unions. Of course, these unions are through the government.
    - Selvik 15y ago
      There's a de facto death penalty for being sufficiently troublesome. I'm not sure whether a do-not-try-to-start-an-independent-labor-union law is actually on the books or not.

espeed 15y ago

Regardless if its billionaires in yuan or dollars, if there is a sentiment in China that the wealthy are being killed, it could fuel the desire to leave.

wisty 15y ago
I'd expect a number of extremely rich Chinese oligarchs have been shot for treason, as some forms of corruption are punishable by the death penalty. There's a lot of really nasty shit that happens in China. Babies dying from additives to their milk formula, organs being stolen, farmers being driven off communes to build illegal factories, outright theft of government funds and property ... none of it is really sanctioned. When the officials who set themselves up as feudal lords get busted, they can go down hard. Even if their superiors were previously turning a blind eye, if it hits Weibo (the Chinese Twitter) then things can get ugly.
- chaostheory 15y ago
  > outright theft of government funds and property Yeah most of that ends up in North America. imo They tend to buy housing in cash for their children mostly in either Vancouver or the Bay Area.
  - wisty 15y ago
    A lot of it stays in China. Officials may have a large unofficial income source (or two), which they spend on wine, women, and Karaoke (none of which officially existed, just like the money they used to pay for it, so there's no explaining to do); or food (you'll never meet a Chinese who won't think a good $500 meal isn't worth it). Or they channel some to their spouse. A few big fish will grab a staggeringly huge amount, then run. We are talking huge amounts here, though, not a Chinese millionaire looking for a house for their kids. There's a total of $120 billion missing, taken by an estimated 16,000 officials. Only the poorer ones will be buying what you would describe as a "house". I'd think most of the Chinese buying houses for their kids are essentially legit businessmen. They probably use cash because Chinese just hate debt. They also see it as an investment, because houses are some of the only things Chinese trust - they see shares as giving a total stranger your money to play with, in the hopes that he gives you more back (I mean, have you seen what US CEOs get paid?).
    - talentdeficit 15y ago
      That's only 7.5 million per corrupt official, which is about the cost of the houses they buy in Shaughnessy, North Vancouver and Point Grey.
      - chaostheory 15y ago
        From the ones that I know of, they are at least $1 million USD and up.
      - anigbrowl 15y ago
        Assume a Pareto distribution; it's usually a good bet.
    - chaostheory 15y ago
      > I'd think most of the Chinese buying houses for their kids are essentially legit businessmen. Not the instances that I know of. They are corrupt Chinese gov officials using embezzled money on homes that typically cost 1-4 million USD (mostly in the 2's from what I've seen).
  - r00fus 15y ago
    It also gets laundered through Hong Kong (mostly Lantau) through gambling (a good reason to be against gambling in general - it's a very well known way to launder money)
  - redthrowaway 15y ago
    As a Vancouverite, I can confirm this. The only reason our housing bubble didn't pop with everyone else's is the continued influx of large amounts of capital from (principally) China. Check out http://www.crackshackormansion.com/part2.html http://www.crackshackormansion.com/part2.html to see how bad it's gotten.
- buss 15y ago
  Right, I think most of these deaths are due to corruption charges. One of the many weird things about China is that corruption is officially illegal, punishable by death, and yet every powerful business person or government official is corrupt by the letter of the law (favors for family, accepting bribes, favoring business that give them money). It's just the way their society has been for a long time. It's such a dangerous political climate because you can't escape the corruption, so the party can bring you down at any moment if you start being a problem for them. edit: I should have read the article first. Only some of the deaths are from official corruption charges. The rest I can't say for sure.
  - deleted 15y ago
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  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
reitzensteinm 15y ago
It's actually hundred millionaires in yuan - $15m or so. http://www.hindustantimes.com/72-millionaires-die-young-in-China-report/Article1-724560.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/72-millionaires-die-young-in-C...
cma 15y ago
There is a death penalty in China for trying to form a labor union (and people said American labor unions opposed "free trade" agreements with China out of pure selfishness...). Anyway, there's a complex mix of people in China afraid of being killed.
- jhancock 15y ago
  Really? Can you point to a death penalty being applied for such a case? I'm not saying your wrong, but its the first I've heard of such thing. I have seen cases where the PRC has protected the rights of workers to form unions. Of course, these unions are through the government.
  - Selvik 15y ago
    There's a de facto death penalty for being sufficiently troublesome. I'm not sure whether a do-not-try-to-start-an-independent-labor-union law is actually on the books or not.