3 ms·

Well, Quibi was just doomed. The more interesting question, to me, is why TikTok and not Vine? Was it just timing? I suspect it was the recommendation engine

Well, Quibi was just doomed. The more interesting question, to me, is why TikTok and not Vine? Was it just timing? I suspect it was the recommendation engine.

zacwest 4y ago
Vine also limited you to a very small video at 6 seconds. There's not a lot of breathing room for creativity in such a tiny window of time.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jandrese 4y ago
  This was it IMHO. Vine was a bit too restrictive. While there is a case for very short video it makes production hard and you end up starved for content. I think Vine might still be around if they had set the limit at 30 seconds or a couple of minutes. Still tight, but not like a straitjacket.
mattnewton 4y ago
Vine didn’t license music the way TikTok did IIRC. That gave TikTok a core use case tapping into kareoke-culture while Vine struggled to find a mainstream audience. Vine also had a slightly-shorter format with less creator tools, and altogether this meant the platform was much more constrained I think. Also, from the outside at least, it felt like twitter just gave up with Vine (and periscope) after a single attempt at monetization. I suspect some of the other difference was the huge bankroll for user acquisition that TikTok had and the resulting patience around monetization? But I don’t know if that is true.
- beauzero 4y ago
  Still bummed about not being able to watch storm chasers on Periscope anymore. It was a great format specifically for that...that and the guy that fed raccoons dog food on his back porch at night. Youtube just isn't quite as easy to find all the storm chaser feeds during a hurricane.
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  Also didn't TikTok have some kind of creator's fund while Vine had "monetize somewhere else," which led to an exodus of serious creatives? In any case, it seems weird that they completely gave up, and even weirder that they Twitter didn't start chasing once TikTok figured out the formula in this space. Network effects are a thing, but with the prospect of a TikTok ban flying around and general unhappiness around aspects of its algorithm, it feels like there is room for a challenger with the strategy of "wait for TikTok to stumble."
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  Is Tiktok even conventionally profitable? I wonder whether a significant portion of it's resources might be provided by state actors to support it's less 'conventional' uses.
  - kevinventullo 4y ago
    This is a fascinating question for me, because the ads are well-marked and easily skipped.
1123581321 4y ago
Partly that Musical.ly had a much more replicable format (lip syncs.) Millions of kids could make a video without worrying they were saying the wrong thing, and good recording quality was guaranteed.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bigbillheck 4y ago
Wasn't Vine basically killed after the big names started talking a union?
- fullshark 4y ago
  I thought it was killed because twitter wanted to push video on twitter.
dexwiz 4y ago
TikTok’s sound overlays are essentially audio meme templates.
the_only_law 4y ago
Didn't something weird happen within the company, I thought most of the users were entirely shocked by it's disappearance. It's generated iconic memes, and introduced me to some great artists who would only continue to grow
- zeruch 4y ago
  Part of it was likely media licensing, part of it was a lack of a liquid business model, and to that latter point, in some quarters it was said that after Twitter acquired it, it couldn't figure out how to monetize it, and it was expensive to maintain.
benjaminwootton 4y ago
TikTok is pretty addictive even without an account and reccomendations. The content is funny and those fast dopamine hits are too much. I don’t trust myself to have it on my phone.
- jamiek88 4y ago
  Wow,I’ve avoided TikTok and your comment made me want to try it. Kinda like when my dad tried to put me off cocaine and just piqued my, until that point, zero interest. I’m not gonna though!
  - jamiek88 4y ago
    I actually did. And man, two hours later I looked up from TikTok and realized it is 3pm! Holy shit, within about 5 mins the algorithm had me laughing like a baboon and swiping away. Scarily effective.
    - LeonTheremin 4y ago
      >5 mins All your life is in a shadow profile which TikTok has access to.
      - falcolas 4y ago
        The shadow profile is not unique to TikTok, what is unique is that they use it to entertain you in addition to monetizing/hoarding your data. Who could have thought a strong focus on entertaining would drive so much engagement?
kjeetgill 4y ago
I don't know if it's an age/generation thing but most of the comments here pointing implementations of the product for why it wasn't as big are just ... unusual. Vine was very much getting the heat and traction that TikTok now has. The "evidence" is that tons of later youtubers got their start and developed successful followings from being so hot on vine. I'm sure it would have evolved to have a little bit longer content eventually. The reason it was killed was entirely unrelated to the quality and vitality of the product and the community around it. Businesses fumble.

Well, Quibi was just doomed. The more interesting question, to me, is why TikTok and not Vine? Was it just timing? I suspect it was the recommendation engine.

zacwest 4y ago

Vine also limited you to a very small video at 6 seconds. There's not a lot of breathing room for creativity in such a tiny window of time.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jandrese 4y ago
This was it IMHO. Vine was a bit too restrictive. While there is a case for very short video it makes production hard and you end up starved for content. I think Vine might still be around if they had set the limit at 30 seconds or a couple of minutes. Still tight, but not like a straitjacket.

mattnewton 4y ago

Vine didn’t license music the way TikTok did IIRC. That gave TikTok a core use case tapping into kareoke-culture while Vine struggled to find a mainstream audience. Vine also had a slightly-shorter format with less creator tools, and altogether this meant the platform was much more constrained I think. Also, from the outside at least, it felt like twitter just gave up with Vine (and periscope) after a single attempt at monetization. I suspect some of the other difference was the huge bankroll for user acquisition that TikTok had and the resulting patience around monetization? But I don’t know if that is true.

beauzero 4y ago
Still bummed about not being able to watch storm chasers on Periscope anymore. It was a great format specifically for that...that and the guy that fed raccoons dog food on his back porch at night. Youtube just isn't quite as easy to find all the storm chaser feeds during a hurricane.
jjoonathan 4y ago
Also didn't TikTok have some kind of creator's fund while Vine had "monetize somewhere else," which led to an exodus of serious creatives? In any case, it seems weird that they completely gave up, and even weirder that they Twitter didn't start chasing once TikTok figured out the formula in this space. Network effects are a thing, but with the prospect of a TikTok ban flying around and general unhappiness around aspects of its algorithm, it feels like there is room for a challenger with the strategy of "wait for TikTok to stumble."
idiotsecant 4y ago
Is Tiktok even conventionally profitable? I wonder whether a significant portion of it's resources might be provided by state actors to support it's less 'conventional' uses.
- kevinventullo 4y ago
  This is a fascinating question for me, because the ads are well-marked and easily skipped.

1123581321 4y ago

Partly that Musical.ly had a much more replicable format (lip syncs.) Millions of kids could make a video without worrying they were saying the wrong thing, and good recording quality was guaranteed.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bigbillheck 4y ago

Wasn't Vine basically killed after the big names started talking a union?

fullshark 4y ago
I thought it was killed because twitter wanted to push video on twitter.

dexwiz 4y ago

TikTok’s sound overlays are essentially audio meme templates.

the_only_law 4y ago

Didn't something weird happen within the company, I thought most of the users were entirely shocked by it's disappearance. It's generated iconic memes, and introduced me to some great artists who would only continue to grow

zeruch 4y ago
Part of it was likely media licensing, part of it was a lack of a liquid business model, and to that latter point, in some quarters it was said that after Twitter acquired it, it couldn't figure out how to monetize it, and it was expensive to maintain.

benjaminwootton 4y ago

TikTok is pretty addictive even without an account and reccomendations. The content is funny and those fast dopamine hits are too much. I don’t trust myself to have it on my phone.

jamiek88 4y ago
Wow,I’ve avoided TikTok and your comment made me want to try it. Kinda like when my dad tried to put me off cocaine and just piqued my, until that point, zero interest. I’m not gonna though!
- jamiek88 4y ago
  I actually did. And man, two hours later I looked up from TikTok and realized it is 3pm! Holy shit, within about 5 mins the algorithm had me laughing like a baboon and swiping away. Scarily effective.
  - LeonTheremin 4y ago
    >5 mins All your life is in a shadow profile which TikTok has access to.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      The shadow profile is not unique to TikTok, what is unique is that they use it to entertain you in addition to monetizing/hoarding your data. Who could have thought a strong focus on entertaining would drive so much engagement?

kjeetgill 4y ago

I don't know if it's an age/generation thing but most of the comments here pointing implementations of the product for why it wasn't as big are just ... unusual. Vine was very much getting the heat and traction that TikTok now has. The "evidence" is that tons of later youtubers got their start and developed successful followings from being so hot on vine. I'm sure it would have evolved to have a little bit longer content eventually. The reason it was killed was entirely unrelated to the quality and vitality of the product and the community around it. Businesses fumble.