7 ms·

Considering he's claiming credit for getting guns out of space, I'm disappointed but not surprised he failed to mention that the gun was required to fend off be

by causi 4y ago

Considering he's claiming credit for getting guns out of space, I'm disappointed but not surprised he failed to mention that the gun was required to fend off bears after the Voskhod 2 mission. So thus far the gun's record is +2 human lives.

hristov 4y ago
Yeah. It should be noted that in places where Soyuz capsules have historically landed there is a real danger of man eating bears and/or wolves. That is what the gun is for.
- WillAdams 4y ago
  Yep: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bears-eat-wealthy-couple-and-pilot-after-helicopter-crash-in-wilderness/ar-AAZJDWR https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bears-eat-wealthy-coupl...
- amelius 4y ago
  From Wikipedia: > Leonov and Belyayev could have likely been recovered by a helicopter with the use of a rope and ladder or rescue basket but Soviet Leader Leonid Brezhnev strictly prohibited cosmonauts to be rescued with those methods.[why?] This resulted in Leonov and Belyayev spending a total of 3 days, two nights, in the forest before finally being recovered So, yeah, but this paints a different picture. Perhaps dropping a gun from the helicopter would have sufficed too.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    Likely isn't good enough. What if the helicopter wasn't there fast enough? What if they weren't immediately found? It's a pretty big place. You want to stack your chances as much as possible.
  - amelius 4y ago
    Note: GP originally mentioned specifically the Voskhod 2 mission. And I should have added a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_2#Crew_recovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_2#Crew_recovery
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    If you are quoting Wikipedia then quote this too: > During this time helicopters dropped supplies for the cosmonauts including warm clothes, boots, water containers, and more. Helicopters also dropped doctors and technicians close to the landing site so they could trek to the landing site and support the cosmonauts. Others were also dropped by helicopters to start clearing a landing pad that was closer to the capsule. With more resources and supplies after their first night the landing site was more sustainable. This included a fire, a makeshift log cabin and they were even brought cheese, sausage, and bread for supper.[20] Finally, after spending two cold nights in a dense forest, Leonov and Belyayev were able to ski 9 kilometers with the help of some rescuers to reach the helicopters landing site
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  It might not be pronounced out loud, but in deep taiga you could meet with people that you would rather not want to meet with. Which could end with bad outcome. I don't think that chances of being eaten by bear are much higher. Bears don't really hunt people with very rare exceptions. And guns could definitely help there as well.
  - retrac 4y ago
    In the early days, even just a humble farmer might think you're a space alien, or worse, an American. When Yuri Gagarin's flight re-entered he ejected and landed a little off the target zone. The first people who encountered him were perhaps a little apprehensive? > A farmer and her granddaughter, Rita Nurskanova, observed the strange scene of a figure in a bright orange suit with a large white helmet landing near them by parachute. Gagarin later recalled, "When they saw me in my space suit and the parachute dragging alongside as I walked, they started to back away in fear. I told them, don't be afraid, I am a Soviet citizen like you, who has descended from space and I must find a telephone to call Moscow!"
    - SkittyDog 4y ago
      > In the early days, even just a humble farmer might think you're a space alien, or worse, an American. When Yuri Gagarin's flight re-entered he ejected and landed a little off the target zone. The first people who encountered him were perhaps a little apprehensive? I think you're going way, waaaay far beyond the evidence to suggest that these farmers though Gagarin was a space alien. That's a funny little narrative, but I don't think it's remotely necessary. These remote Soviet people weren't likely any stupider than you or me... Less educated, sure--but they knew what human beings looked like, and were aware of the fact that airplanes existed. This was more than a decade after WWII ended, after all. I can think of a hundred perfectly terrestrial reasons why these isolated, remote farmers would have good reason to be apprehensive in this situation... I'd imagine they get almost zero visitors, so the sight of any strangers would probably be the big news of the year--let alone a military aviator parachuting down in bright orange clothes. In fairness, I should confess that I'm pointing this out because it kinda bugs me for us to be looking down on these folks, as if they're children or simpletons. At the very least, that narrative seems to serve our own egos, more so than any interest in accuracy.
bagacrap 4y ago
Required to fend off hypothetical bears or actual ones? I can find no source mentioning an actual encounter with wild animals. Also it seems like we should be past the days of leaving cosmo/astronauts in the wilderness by themselves for 3 days before picking them up.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Seems like theoretical bears according to wikipedia: > The location in which the capsule touched down was too dense for a helicopter to land and recover the crew. Leonov and Belyayev could have likely been recovered by a helicopter with the use of a rope and ladder or rescue basket but Soviet Leader Leonid Brezhnev strictly prohibited cosmonauts to be rescued with those methods. [why?] This resulted in Leonov and Belyayev spending a total of 3 days, two nights, in the forest before finally being recovered. The cosmonauts did come partially equipped for this situation taking a survival kit which included a knife and a pistol. (Loving the why) However "we went to space but our cosmonauts got eaten by bears on landing" would be pretty high on the "black eye" scale.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    Maybe they could just deliver the guns by helicopter.
    - throwaway744678 4y ago
      Or shoot the bears from the helicopter, full "Apocalypse now" style!
    - bombcar 4y ago
      But there weren't any bears, they should have delivered some bears by helicopter first.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    A shame there’s no mod for this design challenge in KSP
oneoff786 4y ago
Is a pistol an effective countermeasure for an attacking bear?
- sithadmin 4y ago
  The TP-82 design, while technically a pistol, has a double-barrel shotgun mounted on top of another barrel that fires 5.45x39 rounds (same as an AK-47). A lot more punch than your typical pistol. I wouldn't want to be a bear looking down the wrong end of one.
  - water554 4y ago
    AK-47 is 7.62x39 AK-74 is 5.45x39
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  A pistol is better than a sharp stick. There was a Grizzly killed in Montana a few years ago with a 9mm, the bear was spooked and attacked, iirc the gun was a sub-compact, so figure no more than 12 rounds if he shot and landed all of them.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
    As my friend said - a single shot 22 rifle is better than a club; it's a club that shoots a 22 round! The point is the best gun is the one you have with you at the time.
- mbubb 4y ago
  yes - usually larger caliber and often a revolver, ie: https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/best-6-handguns-bear-country/ https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/best-6-handguns-bear-countr...

by causi 4y ago

hristov 4y ago

Yeah. It should be noted that in places where Soyuz capsules have historically landed there is a real danger of man eating bears and/or wolves. That is what the gun is for.

WillAdams 4y ago
Yep: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bears-eat-wealthy-couple-and-pilot-after-helicopter-crash-in-wilderness/ar-AAZJDWR https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bears-eat-wealthy-coupl...
amelius 4y ago
From Wikipedia: > Leonov and Belyayev could have likely been recovered by a helicopter with the use of a rope and ladder or rescue basket but Soviet Leader Leonid Brezhnev strictly prohibited cosmonauts to be rescued with those methods.[why?] This resulted in Leonov and Belyayev spending a total of 3 days, two nights, in the forest before finally being recovered So, yeah, but this paints a different picture. Perhaps dropping a gun from the helicopter would have sufficed too.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  Likely isn't good enough. What if the helicopter wasn't there fast enough? What if they weren't immediately found? It's a pretty big place. You want to stack your chances as much as possible.
- amelius 4y ago
  Note: GP originally mentioned specifically the Voskhod 2 mission. And I should have added a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_2#Crew_recovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_2#Crew_recovery
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  If you are quoting Wikipedia then quote this too: > During this time helicopters dropped supplies for the cosmonauts including warm clothes, boots, water containers, and more. Helicopters also dropped doctors and technicians close to the landing site so they could trek to the landing site and support the cosmonauts. Others were also dropped by helicopters to start clearing a landing pad that was closer to the capsule. With more resources and supplies after their first night the landing site was more sustainable. This included a fire, a makeshift log cabin and they were even brought cheese, sausage, and bread for supper.[20] Finally, after spending two cold nights in a dense forest, Leonov and Belyayev were able to ski 9 kilometers with the help of some rescuers to reach the helicopters landing site
vbezhenar 4y ago
It might not be pronounced out loud, but in deep taiga you could meet with people that you would rather not want to meet with. Which could end with bad outcome. I don't think that chances of being eaten by bear are much higher. Bears don't really hunt people with very rare exceptions. And guns could definitely help there as well.
- retrac 4y ago
  In the early days, even just a humble farmer might think you're a space alien, or worse, an American. When Yuri Gagarin's flight re-entered he ejected and landed a little off the target zone. The first people who encountered him were perhaps a little apprehensive? > A farmer and her granddaughter, Rita Nurskanova, observed the strange scene of a figure in a bright orange suit with a large white helmet landing near them by parachute. Gagarin later recalled, "When they saw me in my space suit and the parachute dragging alongside as I walked, they started to back away in fear. I told them, don't be afraid, I am a Soviet citizen like you, who has descended from space and I must find a telephone to call Moscow!"
  - SkittyDog 4y ago
    > In the early days, even just a humble farmer might think you're a space alien, or worse, an American. When Yuri Gagarin's flight re-entered he ejected and landed a little off the target zone. The first people who encountered him were perhaps a little apprehensive? I think you're going way, waaaay far beyond the evidence to suggest that these farmers though Gagarin was a space alien. That's a funny little narrative, but I don't think it's remotely necessary. These remote Soviet people weren't likely any stupider than you or me... Less educated, sure--but they knew what human beings looked like, and were aware of the fact that airplanes existed. This was more than a decade after WWII ended, after all. I can think of a hundred perfectly terrestrial reasons why these isolated, remote farmers would have good reason to be apprehensive in this situation... I'd imagine they get almost zero visitors, so the sight of any strangers would probably be the big news of the year--let alone a military aviator parachuting down in bright orange clothes. In fairness, I should confess that I'm pointing this out because it kinda bugs me for us to be looking down on these folks, as if they're children or simpletons. At the very least, that narrative seems to serve our own egos, more so than any interest in accuracy.

bagacrap 4y ago

Required to fend off hypothetical bears or actual ones? I can find no source mentioning an actual encounter with wild animals. Also it seems like we should be past the days of leaving cosmo/astronauts in the wilderness by themselves for 3 days before picking them up.

bombcar 4y ago
Seems like theoretical bears according to wikipedia: > The location in which the capsule touched down was too dense for a helicopter to land and recover the crew. Leonov and Belyayev could have likely been recovered by a helicopter with the use of a rope and ladder or rescue basket but Soviet Leader Leonid Brezhnev strictly prohibited cosmonauts to be rescued with those methods. [why?] This resulted in Leonov and Belyayev spending a total of 3 days, two nights, in the forest before finally being recovered. The cosmonauts did come partially equipped for this situation taking a survival kit which included a knife and a pistol. (Loving the why) However "we went to space but our cosmonauts got eaten by bears on landing" would be pretty high on the "black eye" scale.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  Maybe they could just deliver the guns by helicopter.
  - throwaway744678 4y ago
    Or shoot the bears from the helicopter, full "Apocalypse now" style!
  - bombcar 4y ago
    But there weren't any bears, they should have delivered some bears by helicopter first.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  A shame there’s no mod for this design challenge in KSP

oneoff786 4y ago

Is a pistol an effective countermeasure for an attacking bear?

sithadmin 4y ago
The TP-82 design, while technically a pistol, has a double-barrel shotgun mounted on top of another barrel that fires 5.45x39 rounds (same as an AK-47). A lot more punch than your typical pistol. I wouldn't want to be a bear looking down the wrong end of one.
- water554 4y ago
  AK-47 is 7.62x39 AK-74 is 5.45x39
SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
A pistol is better than a sharp stick. There was a Grizzly killed in Montana a few years ago with a 9mm, the bear was spooked and attacked, iirc the gun was a sub-compact, so figure no more than 12 rounds if he shot and landed all of them.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  As my friend said - a single shot 22 rifle is better than a club; it's a club that shoots a 22 round! The point is the best gun is the one you have with you at the time.
mbubb 4y ago
yes - usually larger caliber and often a revolver, ie: https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/best-6-handguns-bear-country/ https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/best-6-handguns-bear-countr...