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All these C++ "successors" that do nothing but change the syntax sugar and find ways to operate with C++ are really tiring to read about. I seem to be the only

All these C++ "successors" that do nothing but change the syntax sugar and find ways to operate with C++ are really tiring to read about. I seem to be the only one on the planet that doesn't think the language needs to be replaced.

bestouff 4y ago
I'm as tired as you by these cosmetic successors. But for my part I think C++ has already been replaced, and to great benefits. I couldn't thank the people building Rust enough.
- rvz 4y ago
  I still haven't seen a cross-platform production level GUI app written in Rust. All the time, it is C++ these companies use for these apps, especially having millions of users and generating multi-millions or hundreds of millions of dollars.
  - jeltz 4y ago
    Many cross platform GUI apps have been written in C, JS and Java too. The ability to write GUI apps does not really seem that unique to C++.
    - adastra22 4y ago
      That’s not the claim being made.
  - mustache_kimono 4y ago
    "I still haven't seen a production level numerical weather prediction app written in Rust. All the time, it is Fortran the government uses for these apps,..." I vacillate as to whether the best response is: "Who cares?" or "give it time"? First, if C++ actually is better for GUI apps, then more power to C++ (do you have some evidence this is the case?). That doesn't mean their aren't other niches to fill for other languages, like Rust. Next, Rust is a relatively new language. It may end up that it's really great for GUI apps, but again it doesn't have to be. It can be great at other things.
    - bialpio 4y ago
      GP mentioned C++ being replaced by Rust - I'd say that a replacement should be as capable as the thing it replaces, so if that's the claim, then Rust should be at the very least OK for GUI apps. If it's not, then that's also okay, but let's not call it a replacement then. :-) I'm personally excited to see how all those languages will influence each other!
      - wiseowise 4y ago
        You’re comparing framework for one language to another language.
        bialpio 4y ago
        I don't think I understand - where is any kind of framework mentioned? And even if frameworks were mentioned, I think it's a fair comparison to say "language A has battle-proven / easy-to-use / etc. framework to achieve X, but language B doesn't".
        wiseowise 4y ago
        Since when is GUI part of language?
        bialpio 4y ago
        From the moment it can interact with the underlying operating system? C++ doesn't specify any GUI framework as a part of the standard, and yet people manage to write GUI apps. Rust should have the same capabilities of calling into the OS, but GUI apps seem to be slow to appear there - it may be because it's still early days, or because Rust isn't super pleasant to write GUI apps in.
      - mustache_kimono 4y ago
        > GP mentioned C++ being replaced by Rust Then your beef is with the GP? I'm also pretty certain we shouldn't be that pedantic about the word "replacement". Perhaps it's fine for a thing to be a "replacement for the GP" (which I think he/she is pretty clear about) or a "replacement for many uses" or for "all new uses", without being a "complete replacement"? What's getting so weird about about the tenor of the current anti-Rust backlash is that 1) when the discussion turns to safety, it's "Hey, dude, don't harsh my buzz", but 2) when the discussion turns on the what the person meant, the Rust community's well-founded enthusiasm is interpreted in the harshest, most uncharitable, light.
  - pca006132 4y ago
    Perhaps also with a large portion of legacy code that they don't want to throw away and switch to something new?
  - bialpio 4y ago
    We may need more time. IIRC, Firefox is incorporating some code written in Rust, and there's also Servo.
    - pipeline_peak 4y ago
      Mozilla laid off Servo's developers and a lot of the core Firefox Team 2 years ago. Servo is dead
      - bialpio 4y ago
        But it is a cross-platform GUI app, which the post was about. Granted, it is (or was?) experimental (so not production-grade), but the PoC for GUI app in Rust should be there (assuming they didn't use something else just for the GUI, I'm not an expert on Servo).
  - otabdeveloper4 4y ago
    Remove "cross-platform" and "GUI" and your post would still be correct.
  - stusmall 4y ago
    Here is one example: https://serokell.io/blog/rust-in-production-1password https://serokell.io/blog/rust-in-production-1password
    - yakubin 4y ago
      The GUI is made with Electron.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Written in a mix of JavaScript and C++.
- spacechild1 4y ago
  > I think C++ has already been replaced In which world has Rust replaced C++?
m4nu3l 4y ago
AFAIK this is the only one what is compatible with C++ at the source level. As much as I like C++ I think it has a lot of accidental complexity built in and the syntax is too verbose at times. I also think that a lot of people (me included) do not want to switch to something like Rust immediately because of the existing C++ code and the friction of having to make it interoperable. So I believe this is actually a great experiment. Will see whether it works or not, but I hope it will.
foxtacles 4y ago
I feel the same way. Add to that the plethora of "C++ bad" memes that every software engineer is throwing around as soon as they get a whiff of anything remotely resembling C++ - I've made my peace with the fact that I'm in a tiny minority of people who think it's generally a great language that is worthy of further development and improvement instead of abandonment.
jokoon 4y ago
I agree. Although I still think it should be possible to make some things obsolete in C++. The technical debt is real, and the language can hardly improve if old codebases are slowing down the evolution of the language. I already wrote several times that I would like a new C++-like language, but without the complexity of C++. D, zig and rust are fine but they're not simple languages to use. I want the nice things of C++ (string, a few containers, a bit of syntax sugar, the most useful std stuff), with enough simplicity from python or C. I just use the simple parts of C++, and I only want those parts. I just want the KISS simplicity. Carbon is not that, neither is rust zig or D.

bestouff 4y ago

I'm as tired as you by these cosmetic successors. But for my part I think C++ has already been replaced, and to great benefits. I couldn't thank the people building Rust enough.

rvz 4y ago
I still haven't seen a cross-platform production level GUI app written in Rust. All the time, it is C++ these companies use for these apps, especially having millions of users and generating multi-millions or hundreds of millions of dollars.
- jeltz 4y ago
  Many cross platform GUI apps have been written in C, JS and Java too. The ability to write GUI apps does not really seem that unique to C++.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    That’s not the claim being made.
- mustache_kimono 4y ago
  "I still haven't seen a production level numerical weather prediction app written in Rust. All the time, it is Fortran the government uses for these apps,..." I vacillate as to whether the best response is: "Who cares?" or "give it time"? First, if C++ actually is better for GUI apps, then more power to C++ (do you have some evidence this is the case?). That doesn't mean their aren't other niches to fill for other languages, like Rust. Next, Rust is a relatively new language. It may end up that it's really great for GUI apps, but again it doesn't have to be. It can be great at other things.
  - bialpio 4y ago
    GP mentioned C++ being replaced by Rust - I'd say that a replacement should be as capable as the thing it replaces, so if that's the claim, then Rust should be at the very least OK for GUI apps. If it's not, then that's also okay, but let's not call it a replacement then. :-) I'm personally excited to see how all those languages will influence each other!
    - wiseowise 4y ago
      You’re comparing framework for one language to another language.
      - bialpio 4y ago
        I don't think I understand - where is any kind of framework mentioned? And even if frameworks were mentioned, I think it's a fair comparison to say "language A has battle-proven / easy-to-use / etc. framework to achieve X, but language B doesn't".
        wiseowise 4y ago
        Since when is GUI part of language?
        bialpio 4y ago
        From the moment it can interact with the underlying operating system? C++ doesn't specify any GUI framework as a part of the standard, and yet people manage to write GUI apps. Rust should have the same capabilities of calling into the OS, but GUI apps seem to be slow to appear there - it may be because it's still early days, or because Rust isn't super pleasant to write GUI apps in.
    - mustache_kimono 4y ago
      > GP mentioned C++ being replaced by Rust Then your beef is with the GP? I'm also pretty certain we shouldn't be that pedantic about the word "replacement". Perhaps it's fine for a thing to be a "replacement for the GP" (which I think he/she is pretty clear about) or a "replacement for many uses" or for "all new uses", without being a "complete replacement"? What's getting so weird about about the tenor of the current anti-Rust backlash is that 1) when the discussion turns to safety, it's "Hey, dude, don't harsh my buzz", but 2) when the discussion turns on the what the person meant, the Rust community's well-founded enthusiasm is interpreted in the harshest, most uncharitable, light.
- pca006132 4y ago
  Perhaps also with a large portion of legacy code that they don't want to throw away and switch to something new?
- bialpio 4y ago
  We may need more time. IIRC, Firefox is incorporating some code written in Rust, and there's also Servo.
  - pipeline_peak 4y ago
    Mozilla laid off Servo's developers and a lot of the core Firefox Team 2 years ago. Servo is dead
    - bialpio 4y ago
      But it is a cross-platform GUI app, which the post was about. Granted, it is (or was?) experimental (so not production-grade), but the PoC for GUI app in Rust should be there (assuming they didn't use something else just for the GUI, I'm not an expert on Servo).
- otabdeveloper4 4y ago
  Remove "cross-platform" and "GUI" and your post would still be correct.
- stusmall 4y ago
  Here is one example: https://serokell.io/blog/rust-in-production-1password https://serokell.io/blog/rust-in-production-1password
  - yakubin 4y ago
    The GUI is made with Electron.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Written in a mix of JavaScript and C++.
spacechild1 4y ago
> I think C++ has already been replaced In which world has Rust replaced C++?

m4nu3l 4y ago

AFAIK this is the only one what is compatible with C++ at the source level. As much as I like C++ I think it has a lot of accidental complexity built in and the syntax is too verbose at times. I also think that a lot of people (me included) do not want to switch to something like Rust immediately because of the existing C++ code and the friction of having to make it interoperable. So I believe this is actually a great experiment. Will see whether it works or not, but I hope it will.

foxtacles 4y ago

I feel the same way. Add to that the plethora of "C++ bad" memes that every software engineer is throwing around as soon as they get a whiff of anything remotely resembling C++ - I've made my peace with the fact that I'm in a tiny minority of people who think it's generally a great language that is worthy of further development and improvement instead of abandonment.

jokoon 4y ago

I agree. Although I still think it should be possible to make some things obsolete in C++. The technical debt is real, and the language can hardly improve if old codebases are slowing down the evolution of the language. I already wrote several times that I would like a new C++-like language, but without the complexity of C++. D, zig and rust are fine but they're not simple languages to use. I want the nice things of C++ (string, a few containers, a bit of syntax sugar, the most useful std stuff), with enough simplicity from python or C. I just use the simple parts of C++, and I only want those parts. I just want the KISS simplicity. Carbon is not that, neither is rust zig or D.