4 ms·

Things in common across most blue zones: middle latitudes, near a coastline, consistent weather, mild diet with plenty of fish, poor record keeping...

pcurve 4y ago
Also smaller stature. Large and tall people have more cells, and higher chance of cancer.
- baal80spam 4y ago
  > Large and tall people have more cells, and higher chance of cancer. I've never looked at it like that. Is it true?
  - pcurve 4y ago
    sadly data seems to indicate so. :-/ https://www.wcrf.org/why-taller-people-are-at-greater-risk-of-cancer/ https://www.wcrf.org/why-taller-people-are-at-greater-risk-o... https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/taller-people-more-prone-to-cancer-64995 https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/taller-people-mor...
  - samscully 4y ago
    It does appear to be true for humans. Though interestingly there isn't a correlation between species size and cancer risk [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peto%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peto%27s_paradox
    - pcurve 4y ago
      Just to clarify: Across different species, there's no correlation. Within the same species though, there is correlation.
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  Interesting correlation: Eating more meat seems to cause people to grow larger, but there is no strong evidence that being physically larger has intrinsic benefits outside of physical strength (which is arguably not very important). You do however need to eat more, you're more likely to get cancer, heart disease, suffer from chronic inflammation, etc. Interestingly, statistics about growing larger are often used to support more meat eating by meat advocates. There is a lot of talk about protein quality, and the implication is that smaller people are disadvantaged – as though they must be growing less by all measures, not just stature. It isn't so clear that this is true though, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest we shouldn't strive to grow larger (either in stature or in lean mass). I'm not saying there is a certain truth in there at all. I do find the correlations fascinating though. It defies a lot of what I understood about nutrition for most of my life so it's definitely something I'd like to see more data on. I'm open to a meat-based diet being superior overall (or any tasty diet, really).
  - _vdpp 4y ago
    How is physical strength unimportant? Stronger people are harder to kill (h/t Rippetoe) and improved strength also helps to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome and neck/back pain for those of us at a computer all day.
    - zacharycohn 4y ago
      Speaking as a fellow Starting Strength fan: this is only true in the modern era to the extent that being healthy is better than being unhealthy. If you look at the top X causes of death in humans, very very few of them could have been avoided "if only the deceased were stronger."
      - kzrdude 4y ago
        Falling and then breaking bones or getting ill otherwise is a common cause of death, and muscle mass and fitness helps avoid it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899404/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899404/
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  that conjecture is famously contradicted by elephants, and it's a topic of research why that is.
  - Ardon 4y ago
    No it isn't? Elephants develop cancerous cells at the same rate per cell as every other animal, but have better biological methods of destroying them when those cells do turn cancerous.
    - jjtheblunt 4y ago
      Is there a citation for that assertion? It's possible elephants induce apoptosis for aberrant non-cancerous cells, for instance, earlier. super interesting
atourgates 4y ago
I assume your comment is semi-tongue-in-cheek, but Loma Linda's the counter to several of those points. Loma Linda's core contributing factors seem to be: * High incidence of vegetarianism * High incidence of non-smokers and non-drinkers * Strong religious / social community * Access to great healthcare All while having birth records that are just about as accurate as anyplace else in the United States.
- TylerE 4y ago
  But it conforms to many of the others... it's only 20 miles inland from the pacific, and has an (albeit warmer than normal) Mediterranean climate... "winter" lows are rarely below the mid 40s.
  - bcatanzaro 4y ago
    Loma Linda is more like 60 miles from the pacific. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Loma+Linda,+CA/Huntington+Beach,+CA/@33.8578684,-117.9101637,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcab92206e4d73:0xcd1f51ac8ed3b285!2m2!1d-117.2611527!2d34.0483474!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dd2422f9c82ab5:0x45ed85c9a4663b01!2m2!1d-117.9988026!2d33.6594835!3e0 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Loma+Linda,+CA/Huntington+Be...
  - TimTheTinker 4y ago
    I grew up in the Loma Linda area as a Seventh-day Adventist (though my family left Adventism when I was a teenager after reading some books that explained why some of its core teachings are unbiblical). My grandparents all lived past 90, and my great-grandfather died at 100. Epidemiologically speaking, I think SDAs in general live longer because they don't smoke, don't drink, and don't eat meat -- and have a religious community in which doing so is against God's law. It also doesn't hurt that they keep Sabbath, which means everyone who doesn't work in healthcare or emergency services has a mandatory day off, no work allowed. Smog in the whole Inland Empire area is still pretty bad, especially in the summer. It gets pretty hot in the summer, not very cold in the winter - a lot like LA, but hotter :)
    - 4y ago
tenpies 4y ago
> poor record keeping... If I may posit an idea. It's not that poor record keeping leads to blue zones. It's that not caring about the trivialities of paper pushing and imaginary rules that current Western governments use to exert their power, helps one live longer. Now why do guys like you and me know what a land registry is? Is this essential to our survival, in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word? No. What are we then?

pcurve 4y ago

Also smaller stature. Large and tall people have more cells, and higher chance of cancer.

baal80spam 4y ago
> Large and tall people have more cells, and higher chance of cancer. I've never looked at it like that. Is it true?
- pcurve 4y ago
  sadly data seems to indicate so. :-/ https://www.wcrf.org/why-taller-people-are-at-greater-risk-of-cancer/ https://www.wcrf.org/why-taller-people-are-at-greater-risk-o... https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/taller-people-more-prone-to-cancer-64995 https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/taller-people-mor...
- samscully 4y ago
  It does appear to be true for humans. Though interestingly there isn't a correlation between species size and cancer risk [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peto%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peto%27s_paradox
  - pcurve 4y ago
    Just to clarify: Across different species, there's no correlation. Within the same species though, there is correlation.
steve_adams_86 4y ago
Interesting correlation: Eating more meat seems to cause people to grow larger, but there is no strong evidence that being physically larger has intrinsic benefits outside of physical strength (which is arguably not very important). You do however need to eat more, you're more likely to get cancer, heart disease, suffer from chronic inflammation, etc. Interestingly, statistics about growing larger are often used to support more meat eating by meat advocates. There is a lot of talk about protein quality, and the implication is that smaller people are disadvantaged – as though they must be growing less by all measures, not just stature. It isn't so clear that this is true though, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest we shouldn't strive to grow larger (either in stature or in lean mass). I'm not saying there is a certain truth in there at all. I do find the correlations fascinating though. It defies a lot of what I understood about nutrition for most of my life so it's definitely something I'd like to see more data on. I'm open to a meat-based diet being superior overall (or any tasty diet, really).
- _vdpp 4y ago
  How is physical strength unimportant? Stronger people are harder to kill (h/t Rippetoe) and improved strength also helps to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome and neck/back pain for those of us at a computer all day.
  - zacharycohn 4y ago
    Speaking as a fellow Starting Strength fan: this is only true in the modern era to the extent that being healthy is better than being unhealthy. If you look at the top X causes of death in humans, very very few of them could have been avoided "if only the deceased were stronger."
    - kzrdude 4y ago
      Falling and then breaking bones or getting ill otherwise is a common cause of death, and muscle mass and fitness helps avoid it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899404/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899404/
jjtheblunt 4y ago
that conjecture is famously contradicted by elephants, and it's a topic of research why that is.
- Ardon 4y ago
  No it isn't? Elephants develop cancerous cells at the same rate per cell as every other animal, but have better biological methods of destroying them when those cells do turn cancerous.
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    Is there a citation for that assertion? It's possible elephants induce apoptosis for aberrant non-cancerous cells, for instance, earlier. super interesting

atourgates 4y ago

I assume your comment is semi-tongue-in-cheek, but Loma Linda's the counter to several of those points. Loma Linda's core contributing factors seem to be: * High incidence of vegetarianism * High incidence of non-smokers and non-drinkers * Strong religious / social community * Access to great healthcare All while having birth records that are just about as accurate as anyplace else in the United States.

TylerE 4y ago
But it conforms to many of the others... it's only 20 miles inland from the pacific, and has an (albeit warmer than normal) Mediterranean climate... "winter" lows are rarely below the mid 40s.
- bcatanzaro 4y ago
  Loma Linda is more like 60 miles from the pacific. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Loma+Linda,+CA/Huntington+Beach,+CA/@33.8578684,-117.9101637,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcab92206e4d73:0xcd1f51ac8ed3b285!2m2!1d-117.2611527!2d34.0483474!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dd2422f9c82ab5:0x45ed85c9a4663b01!2m2!1d-117.9988026!2d33.6594835!3e0 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Loma+Linda,+CA/Huntington+Be...
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  I grew up in the Loma Linda area as a Seventh-day Adventist (though my family left Adventism when I was a teenager after reading some books that explained why some of its core teachings are unbiblical). My grandparents all lived past 90, and my great-grandfather died at 100. Epidemiologically speaking, I think SDAs in general live longer because they don't smoke, don't drink, and don't eat meat -- and have a religious community in which doing so is against God's law. It also doesn't hurt that they keep Sabbath, which means everyone who doesn't work in healthcare or emergency services has a mandatory day off, no work allowed. Smog in the whole Inland Empire area is still pretty bad, especially in the summer. It gets pretty hot in the summer, not very cold in the winter - a lot like LA, but hotter :)
  - 4y ago

tenpies 4y ago

> poor record keeping... If I may posit an idea. It's not that poor record keeping leads to blue zones. It's that not caring about the trivialities of paper pushing and imaginary rules that current Western governments use to exert their power, helps one live longer. Now why do guys like you and me know what a land registry is? Is this essential to our survival, in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word? No. What are we then?