4 ms·
Tl;dr: Florida still has more access than much of Europe
by ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
Tl;dr: Florida still has more access than much of Europe
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ch4s3 4y agoMore over, much of Europe had more restrictions only a few years ago.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
- ch4s3 4y agoIt was meant as extra context. While I don’t like the Supreme Court’s ruling, I hardly think the US is taking a “theocratic approach.” Even now most of the US population will live under a set of laws that are more permissive than those in Europe. Imagine if Poland, Malta, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands all had to have centralized set of laws across wide array of contentious issues. It would be a mess.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago> with a terrible political system made 300 years ago by slavers ... a political system that was widely considered revolutionary and incredibly enlightened at the time, including (or especially) by Europeans, who lived under much less democratic forms of government. I'm on your side on the abortion issue, but bashing the American Revolution and blaming the founders isn't going to help your cause, and it's just bad history.
- ch4s3 4y agoThere are in fact quite large historical and cultural differences between different parts of the US. You could write whole books about the differences. The government as it stands only became so centralized and powerful between WWI and the Great Depression. Prior to WWI some 5% of Americans were primarily German speakers. Large populations today primarily speak Spanish. There are large divides in culture, economic activity, religion, and on and on. The founders weren’t all “slavers”, and in fact a number were abolitionists. They very idea that people didn’t need a monarchy or landed nobility was literally revolutionary at the time. The whole global abolition movement grew out of the Scottish enlightenment which heavily informed America’s founding. I would also point out that most democracies have constitutional courts. Frankly this whole situation could have been avoided if either congress had literally ever acted, or if progressive jurists weren’t so afraid of Lochner and substantive due process around individual rights. Bending over backwards to find a right to privacy in the “penumbras” of various rights was a complete failure.
- nathanaldensr 4y agoYour hyperbole is, of course, incorrect. The "US" has actually explicitly not taken an approach--that was the entire purpose of the Supreme Court's ruling. In fact, fifty states now individually take approaches, which currently represent quite a wide spectrum of beliefs. Some approaches are rooted in religious beliefs (aside: the United States' legal system is actually itself rooted in Christian beliefs and morals) and some are secular.
- ch4s3 4y ago> aside: the United States' legal system is actually itself rooted in Christian beliefs and morals This seems fairly debatable to me. The filtering of English common law through an enlightenment lens seems like a better description, IMHO.
- dragonwriter 4y agoAnd the US has far less restrictions a couple months ago. But what does either matter to people living in the present?
- ch4s3 4y agoNot every statement needs to be written to serve some noble goal. I was offering the previous poster some interesting extra context.
- kadoban 4y agoNot for long.
- cool_dude85 4y agoFor now. The reason Florida is an outlier among the rest of the southeast US is an explicit right to privacy in the state constitution, which was of course the basis for Roe v. Wade and has precedent at the state supreme court as protecting abortion access. The 15-week ban is seen as a test case for how the current state supreme court will rule, since it has 3 DeSantis nominees. If they uphold the law, expect to see FL follow the rest of the region, post-haste.
- happyopossum 4y agoYou missed the point there - the 15 week limit alone is more open than many European countries.
- cool_dude85 4y agoMy point is that should the 15-week law be upheld, we will be in special session the next day for a ban.
- elil17 4y agoState courts' interpretations of their own constitutions aren't bound by the federal courts' interpretations of the federal constitution. "If they uphold the law" is the wrong way to phrase it because the Florida supreme court will decide what the law is for Florida.
- koshergweilo 4y agoFlorida yes, but you're missing the whole last portion of the article: Tl;dr: Florida has more access than some of Europe, but Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Texas have more restrictions than pretty much all of Europe except for Poland. "On the other hand, several states have banned abortion from conception, with only exceptions for the life of the woman (no exceptions for rape, incest, or lethal fetal abnormalities): Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Texas. (For Texas, the law is currently held up in court.) These laws are more restrictive than almost anywhere else in the rich world. Poland is similar, but is it “rich”?"
- rory 4y agoI think most people basically understand that part though. It's not like no one has noticed the bans and restrictions in red states. The much stranger thing that's happening is Europeans protesting in the streets against a ruling in America that declared a 16-week abortion ban legal-- when their own country has a 12-week abortion ban! It seems that many people both inside and outside America are missing the fact that the laws of most European countries would have been declared illegal under Roe for being too restrictive.
- smsm42 4y agoAlso, the Mississippi law that started the Dobbs case was virtually the same as Florida - 15 weeks with some exceptions.