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Last I checked AWS has poor support for Docker and Kubernetes, they charge a bit more for those than their own Fargate. Docker & Kubernetes are a threat to AWS

Last I checked AWS has poor support for Docker and Kubernetes, they charge a bit more for those than their own Fargate. Docker & Kubernetes are a threat to AWS because it makes applications cloud-independent, and AWS would prefer for you to weld your applications to AWS. The issues mentioned in this story are minor irritants that exist in Azure, AWS and Google cloud.

upupandup 4y ago
- ziddoap 4y ago
  >Not true Care to... add more to the conversation? I don't even know which part you are saying isn't true. Or why it isn't true. Or what the truth is, since you seem to know? Edit: A reply of just "yes"... Is this some weird form of trolling?
  - upupandup 4y ago
haolez 4y ago
Maybe, or maybe Kubernetes is the new legacy and by 2025 most companies will be using managed services like Lambda. :) I'm a heavy Azure user and you can tell that things are not as well designed and implemented as AWS.
- pid-1 4y ago
  In general I'm seeing folks move from managed services to Kubernetes. The common sentiment is that AWS managed services are complex anyway (except for very simple use cases), so you might as well go to K8s and get more flexibility and potentially reduced costs.
oppositelock 4y ago
AWS support for Docker and Kubernetes is great, I'm curious why you say that. Managed Kubernetes (EKS) is really good at this point, and coupled with the ALB Ingress Controller, it beats anything else I've tried in terms of monitoring, ingress routing, etc. One little bit that is missing from EKS is selecting the size of your control plane, because the default is too small for dynamically scaling clusters running thousands of pods - you need to go through support to increase it. Docker is more a function of the OS you choose on your instances, and it work as well on Amazon Linux as in any other. In k8s, docker is no longer assumed to be the only CNI, so lots of changes are in flight to be able to change that. FWIW, my team is spending $400k/month in AWS right now. Suffice it to say, we use it a lot. It's been generally good, though it's hard to figure out new things due to terrible docs. Docs are plentiful, but not well integrated with each other and not kept up to date.
- edmcnulty101 4y ago
  400k a MONTH? Man I'm jealous. :)
  - dinvlad 4y ago
    I don't want to assume things, but in many orgs this just means "we waste 10x more than we could have without it, and equally more on multi-team developer/management workforce needed to support it, because of course everything needs scale".
    - oppositelock 4y ago
      k8s doesn't get you scaling, in fact, it can get in the way, but if you play your cards right, it gets you high utilization of the CPU and RAM for which you pay, more than doing something simpler via autoscaling or whatever, because it's a solution to dynamic workload distribution, which is a difficult thing to build yourself.
      - dinvlad 4y ago
        Oh, after trying my hand at a custom scheduler on bare-bones VMs, I dreamed of using K8s for bin-packing too, but in reality they still end up just running a bunch of Java services that are extremely poor at RAM reporting, and so really are not compatible with the sexy VPA and other such cool stuff. So the end result is still just a bunch of nodes running with way too much "free" RAM (and hence CPU) to accommodate for poorly predictable JRE RAM consumption patterns. I once observed that what could run on a single node with 16 cores (according to GKE's own cost reporting metrics) ends up running on a cluster of 512 (!) vCPUs. So it's more than a 10x waste, just purely to avoid running OOM etc.
dalyons 4y ago
This just isn’t true. EKS is well supported now and works quite well. Amazon originally bet on ECS years and years ago before it was clear k8s was going to win, but they’ve committed to EKS now. Re docker - ECS, and fargate(fargate supports EKS/k8s now too) which is built on top of it, have always been docker from day 1. So don’t understand what you mean there.

upupandup 4y ago

ziddoap 4y ago
>Not true Care to... add more to the conversation? I don't even know which part you are saying isn't true. Or why it isn't true. Or what the truth is, since you seem to know? Edit: A reply of just "yes"... Is this some weird form of trolling?
- upupandup 4y ago

haolez 4y ago

Maybe, or maybe Kubernetes is the new legacy and by 2025 most companies will be using managed services like Lambda. :) I'm a heavy Azure user and you can tell that things are not as well designed and implemented as AWS.

pid-1 4y ago
In general I'm seeing folks move from managed services to Kubernetes. The common sentiment is that AWS managed services are complex anyway (except for very simple use cases), so you might as well go to K8s and get more flexibility and potentially reduced costs.

oppositelock 4y ago

AWS support for Docker and Kubernetes is great, I'm curious why you say that. Managed Kubernetes (EKS) is really good at this point, and coupled with the ALB Ingress Controller, it beats anything else I've tried in terms of monitoring, ingress routing, etc. One little bit that is missing from EKS is selecting the size of your control plane, because the default is too small for dynamically scaling clusters running thousands of pods - you need to go through support to increase it. Docker is more a function of the OS you choose on your instances, and it work as well on Amazon Linux as in any other. In k8s, docker is no longer assumed to be the only CNI, so lots of changes are in flight to be able to change that. FWIW, my team is spending $400k/month in AWS right now. Suffice it to say, we use it a lot. It's been generally good, though it's hard to figure out new things due to terrible docs. Docs are plentiful, but not well integrated with each other and not kept up to date.

edmcnulty101 4y ago
400k a MONTH? Man I'm jealous. :)
- dinvlad 4y ago
  I don't want to assume things, but in many orgs this just means "we waste 10x more than we could have without it, and equally more on multi-team developer/management workforce needed to support it, because of course everything needs scale".
  - oppositelock 4y ago
    k8s doesn't get you scaling, in fact, it can get in the way, but if you play your cards right, it gets you high utilization of the CPU and RAM for which you pay, more than doing something simpler via autoscaling or whatever, because it's a solution to dynamic workload distribution, which is a difficult thing to build yourself.
    - dinvlad 4y ago
      Oh, after trying my hand at a custom scheduler on bare-bones VMs, I dreamed of using K8s for bin-packing too, but in reality they still end up just running a bunch of Java services that are extremely poor at RAM reporting, and so really are not compatible with the sexy VPA and other such cool stuff. So the end result is still just a bunch of nodes running with way too much "free" RAM (and hence CPU) to accommodate for poorly predictable JRE RAM consumption patterns. I once observed that what could run on a single node with 16 cores (according to GKE's own cost reporting metrics) ends up running on a cluster of 512 (!) vCPUs. So it's more than a 10x waste, just purely to avoid running OOM etc.

dalyons 4y ago

This just isn’t true. EKS is well supported now and works quite well. Amazon originally bet on ECS years and years ago before it was clear k8s was going to win, but they’ve committed to EKS now. Re docker - ECS, and fargate(fargate supports EKS/k8s now too) which is built on top of it, have always been docker from day 1. So don’t understand what you mean there.