10 ms·

> long after covid is any sort threat whatsoever People dying and people with - and still getting- long COVID would probably disagree with that statement.

dang 4y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32131661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32131661.
PKop 4y ago
Here again a blatant lack of clarity around the issue. Who are dying and at what rate? What are their comorbidities? What is the vax status of those that are dying, presumably many have taken the vaccine anyways yes? But you do you, is the point. I'm perfectly fine with my choice of not taking it: I'm not overweight, I lift weights and exercise regularly, have low bodyfat percent, I get plenty of sunlight for Vitamin D and immune support. I do not need the vaccine. This mentality of extreme safetyism applied indiscriminately even now is insane. Are you going to take covid boosters for the rest of your life? The disease is going to be continually weakened and become just another coronavirus. The rest of us will move on with our lives. Quite simply, I'm not worried about Covid at all. Can you say the same about the long term prospects of endless boosters on your body? I sure couldn't. Tell me now how 100% confident you are there are no side effects because the propaganda experts and drug companies told you so, so we can come back to it in 6 months when more side effects start being discovered and posted here on HN... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29003555 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29003555
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > Who are dying and at what rate? Mostly the very old, at this point; though I'm in my 40s where the rate starts to tick up. But beyond that, there's the risk of long term morbidity. My niece was early 20's, active, in good health, with no comorbidities and is now pseudo-disabled. The vaccine only removes about 30% of the risk of this type of outcome, but still that alone is worth it. > What is the vax status of those that are dying, presumably many have taken the vaccine anyways yes? Looks like people who have taken the vaccine have about 6-10% of the risk of death of those who haven't, controlling for comorbidities. > Are you going to take covid boosters for the rest of your life? A lot of us might-- though I've got a fair bit of hope that we come up with something better in the next couple of years. I will do my best to avoid infection in the meantime. > The disease is going to be continually weakened and become just another coronavirus. Viral selection is complicated. Yes, in the very long term, many viruses end up becoming less virulent, but others go in the other direction. > Can you say the same about the long term prospects of endless boosters on your body? I sure couldn't. I'm pretty dang confident that I can bound the risk from the vaccine to be much lower than the risk from COVID infection.
- jmcgough 4y ago
  > But you do you, is the point I've never understood this type of selfishness. If you get sick you will, on average, infect another 2-3 people. It's not just about you.
  - busymom0 4y ago
    1. Covid shots do not prevent infection or transmission. 2. Since Delta, both vaxxed and unvaxxed cases have the same viral load. 3. Since December at least, boosted and vaxxed have higher RATE per 100k of covid infections. So whatever benefit one gets is individual benefit only and not getting others sick in any different way as the vaxxed folks do.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > 1. Covid shots do not prevent infection or transmission. It does look like there's about a 20-30% reduction of infection from random surveys of the population and from nucleocapsid seroprevalence assays; transmission-once-infected is very difficult to measure, but it would be surprising if it did not have some effect. > 2. Since Delta, both vaxxed and unvaxxed cases have the same viral load. There's a key fallacy here: we're looking at a population of cases detected by similar means and then found that they have similar viral loads. Not too surprising of a finding (survivorship bias, basically). There's some data indicating that viral copy assays are not good proxies for finding true infectious shedding -- and that vaccinated individuals can be much better in this regard despite having higher loads. e.g. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0 > 3. Since December at least, boosted and vaxxed have higher RATE per 100k of covid infections. This is absolutely and completely untrue. There's been a couple of times where the vaxxed have been higher in the data series, but the overwhelming trend in the data has been the opposite. e.g. right now in Santa Clara County, where I am, the unvaccinated case rate is approximately 268 per 100,000 per week; the fully vaccinated case rate is about 46 per 100,000. Of course, people who elect vaccination don't behave exactly the same as those who don't... and so many people in S.C.C. are vaccinated that the exact number of unvaccinated has some uncertainty (but it's not off by a factor of 5).
- StillBored 4y ago
  While I sorta tend to agree with you, this is a _RESULT_ of people refusing to take the vaccines (or do full lockdowns/wear masks/etc). Like the original SARs strains it should have been possible to eradicate through strong public health measures, one of which was vaccination. So, we can shrug this one off, because in the end it _only_ kills a percent or so of people, overwhelmingly already infirm or elderly. We may not be so lucky the next time, and this attitude _will_ get us in trouble when that happens.
  - gjsman-1000 4y ago
    China literally locked down Shanghai and millions of people in their homes, had police everywhere monitoring, had almost no exceptions other than for the police, and literally boarded people in their homes, engaged every spying mechanism they had, did mandatory testing, for more than six weeks, and it did not stop COVID - but it is increasingly clear it only delayed it from spreading inevitably. Even WIRED, pro-vaccine, has written articles about all the people who died from the lockdown and inability to get medical care due to the restrictions. It was the most full, most strict lockdown physically possible and it still did not work and China is looking at needing to repeat it.
    - StillBored 4y ago
      After it already went endemic, and the transmissiblity went through the roof. Not sure why that is hard to understand. If this virus killed 95% of people would you be arguing against lockdowns? I think most people can agree that its one of those to little to late situations in china and they need to reconsider at this point, but that doesn't make what they are trying to do wrong.
      - mk81 4y ago
      - PKop 4y ago
        People that think the spread of this coronavirus could ever have been stopped, let alone without destroying social fabric, mental health and causing an economic depression/hyperinflation are insane.
- JohnTHaller 4y ago
  My under 40 triathlete friend with no comorbidities who wound up in the ICU for a month and needed two surgeries to drain his lungs would beg to differ. Or my buddy down the block under 40 with no cormorbities who is now on beta blockers for long term Covid. As would folks like my Dad who the vaccine and first booster didn't work on due to his suppressed immune system from receiving my kidney.
  - anonymouse008 4y ago
    Lance Armstrong had advanced testicular cancer while competing and placing 6th in the Olympics in 1996. Comorbidities are tricky - and triathletes are a weird body type to build and maintain.
    - PKop 4y ago
      Yes extreme endurance can be immuno suppressive.
  - nradov 4y ago
    With billions of cases around the world there will always be some outliers, but those are irrelevant for decision making. What does the data show?
  - PKop 4y ago
    Careful with extreme endurance exercise, it can be immuno suppressive [0] I would advise a balance between weightlifting, moderate cardio, lots of sunlight exposure for Vitamin D and testosterone support, and a balanced diet. And yes there are instances of young, non co-morbid people dying from covid. Statistically, not that many, so I'm not worried about it. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475230/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475230/
    - dktokyo 4y ago
    - baremetal 4y ago
- ccn0p 4y ago
  Yes and this insanity is literally keeping large numbers of people from engaging in parts of society. Some conferences, meetups, and events still require attendees to be fully vaccinated with no testing option. I was unable to attend an event just last week for this reason. It's stunning.
  - mcronce 4y ago
    You weren't unable to attend anything. You had an option to attend the event - get vaccinated. You chose to not attend the event. The only thing "keeping you" from it is you.
    - ccn0p 4y ago
      That's a great point. Next up, we'll make sure Muslims can't go to the same conference because they chose not to go. Maybe your next thought is the vaccine makes the conference safer. Let's play Choose your own Adventure. You have to sit next to someone on a crowded airplane in economy class for 3 hours and this person loves to talk. You get to choose that this person is either a) vaccinated, or b) tested negative for covid every day for the past 3 days. Which do you choose? It's fascinating and scary that fear has led our society to let segregation creep in under the guise of public health.
      - dktokyo 4y ago
        dudeDDRrulez 4y ago
        There is no herd immunity in play with anyone vaccinated with COVID-19 mRNA vaccines. Please remove that from your vocabulary when referencing the vaccines for one reason: they do not provide immunity and never have. Hence there is not and will not be herd immunity from vaccinations alone. Please, spreading this nonsense does not help anyone. You are lying which makes you look bad (or if you think it’s actually true, it makes you look stupid).
- woodruffw 4y ago
  This kind of skepticism goes both ways: you could get COVID next week and discover that you have a latent comorbidity that otherwise would never have affected you. From a public health perspective, universal (or near-universal) vaccination is an unequivocal good. Given the sum of what we know about both COVID and any side effects of vaccination, this remains the case.
  - PKop 4y ago
    This is an abuse of language: "universal vaccination" Is it a vaccine, or a therapy? Why does the supposed efficacy of the vaccines ability to prevent spread of covid wane so quickly? At best the vax is novel therapy that temporarily boosts immune system to fight the current strain. But whatever the side effects of this mechanism, they can accumulate with each successive round of boosters. Is it safe to keep taking these shots every 6 to 12 months? Who knows... but if they have to be repeatedly taken, they clearly do not effectively stop the spread of covid which the evidence shows. I'll take my chances as having good enough genetics and lifestyle, and being young enough, in aggregate to tip the scales well past the point where getting covid and whatever natural immunity that it provides is just fine. >latent comorbidity Yea and I can get hit by a bus tomorrow. The main comorbidities that dominate the stats as present in over 80% of deaths are obesity and age. I have neither. We have to be realistic here. Look at Haiti vs New Zealand regarding vax rates vs death rates. It is not unequivocally good.
    - woodruffw 4y ago
      These questions presuppose a false dichotomy: vaccines can be therapeutic, prophylactic, or both. Simultaneously, they can be either sterilizing or attenuating with respect to the immunity they provide. The COVID vaccines are prophylactic and therapeutic. So far, they seem to be mostly attenuating with respect to their immunity, not unlike flu vaccines (in two regards: both weak cross-strain protection and much milder illness when infected with the targeted strain). Additionally, there's decent empirical evidence that "breakthrough" cases are generally less contagious. "Being realistic here" means getting a free, readily available vaccine that reduces the risk of serious illness or death. Separately, it means doing your civic duty to reduce load on our medical institutions and lessen the latent risk to those around you (who may have comorbidities that you are not privy to and are not entitled to be privy to).
- somewhereoutth 4y ago
  With Covid everything is fine until it isn't. Furthermore, it is pretty obvious that a non-replicating fragment of a pathogen given even every 6 months is going to cause less damage than the real thing (also available every 6 months the way things are going). Luckily we've done extensive trials to back that up.
busymom0 4y ago
1. Covid vax does not prevent long covid: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/05/25/long-covid-vaccines-slight-protection/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/05/25/long-covid-... 2. Healthy young people under 50 or even 60 were not dying or getting hospitalized. Whatever risk they want to take, they should be able to take it without mandates. Since the vax does not prevent infection or transmission, one is only taking individual risk and not affecting others.
- jamroom 4y ago
  Specific to the US which states had vaccine mandates?
  - busymom0 4y ago
    I live in Canada. Here, unvaxxed weren't even allowed to air travel domestically. Nor did they recognize a negative PCR test or past infection natural immunity. Compassionate grounds such as taking care of sick family member, funeral etc were also not exempted. Everyone who were COVID+ despite being vaxxed were allowed to fly, go to gym, restaurant etc. Meanwhile, an unvaxxed person wasn't allowed to do the same even if they could show a negative PCR test.
    - vimwizard 4y ago
      >Everyone who were COVID+ despite being vaxxed were allowed to fly, go to gym, restaurant etc This isn't true at all, plenty of businesses have a no-symptoms policy. On the flip side, I don't think they could effectively screen everyone anyway.
      - busymom0 4y ago
        I am talking about Canada. We had one of the most draconian mandates. And these were enforced by Government orders, not simply businesses. We still have them actually in July 2022. Kids aren't allowed to go to summer camp without being 2 dose vaxxed. Travellers who are unvaxxed need to show a negative test at airport, another negative test on 8th day and quarantine for 14 days.
fernandotakai 4y ago
i took all three shots and got covid about two weeks ago. it was HARSH. no sense of smell, no sense of taste, 3 days with high-ish fever (39C), the body ache was crazy bad and worse of all: brain fog. i managed to avoid going to the hospital, but barely. and that's with 3 shots. i'm almost sure i would be in an ICU if i didn't get any shots.
- blumomo 4y ago
  > and that's with 3 shots. i'm almost sure i would be in an ICU if i didn't get any shots. How could we prove this hypothesis?
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    It’s an anecdote, not a hypothesis.
    - peteradio 4y ago
      > i'm almost sure i would be in an ICU if i didn't get any shots. It's a meme really.
- PKop 4y ago
  What would the shots making you sicker look like? In any case, I never had any shots, got Covid last December, was sick for 3 days with a bad sore throat and recovered just fine shortly after. Many people are rightly not so obsessed with irrational safetyism and have no problems avoiding the vaccine and getting on with life.
- henry_bone 4y ago
  I am 49yo, male. I'm healthy, but mildly overweight. I was very fit prior to the lockdowns (Melbourne, Vic, Australia), but I lacked the disciplinary wherewithall to maintain that fitness over the past couple of years. I have chosen not to receive any Covid19 vaccinations and so I am "unvaccinated". I thought it was never going to happen, but eventually I contracted covid19, over Easter period this year. I too experienced myalgia, a mild fever. I also had a sore throat for about 2 days. I didn't completely lose my sense of smell, but coffee (for example) didn't taste great. Same with wine. That anosmia, such as it was, persisted for a week or two. But that's it really. It was all over in about 2.5 days. I would not describe what I experienced as "harsh". I've had Influenza, and that was harsh. Sat me on my arse for a solid week. But not this. By day 4, I was doing household chores and more or less back to normal (mild anosmia not withstanding). So, YMMV. :-)

dang 4y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32131661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32131661.

PKop 4y ago

Here again a blatant lack of clarity around the issue. Who are dying and at what rate? What are their comorbidities? What is the vax status of those that are dying, presumably many have taken the vaccine anyways yes? But you do you, is the point. I'm perfectly fine with my choice of not taking it: I'm not overweight, I lift weights and exercise regularly, have low bodyfat percent, I get plenty of sunlight for Vitamin D and immune support. I do not need the vaccine. This mentality of extreme safetyism applied indiscriminately even now is insane. Are you going to take covid boosters for the rest of your life? The disease is going to be continually weakened and become just another coronavirus. The rest of us will move on with our lives. Quite simply, I'm not worried about Covid at all. Can you say the same about the long term prospects of endless boosters on your body? I sure couldn't. Tell me now how 100% confident you are there are no side effects because the propaganda experts and drug companies told you so, so we can come back to it in 6 months when more side effects start being discovered and posted here on HN... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29003555 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29003555

dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
mlyle 4y ago
> Who are dying and at what rate? Mostly the very old, at this point; though I'm in my 40s where the rate starts to tick up. But beyond that, there's the risk of long term morbidity. My niece was early 20's, active, in good health, with no comorbidities and is now pseudo-disabled. The vaccine only removes about 30% of the risk of this type of outcome, but still that alone is worth it. > What is the vax status of those that are dying, presumably many have taken the vaccine anyways yes? Looks like people who have taken the vaccine have about 6-10% of the risk of death of those who haven't, controlling for comorbidities. > Are you going to take covid boosters for the rest of your life? A lot of us might-- though I've got a fair bit of hope that we come up with something better in the next couple of years. I will do my best to avoid infection in the meantime. > The disease is going to be continually weakened and become just another coronavirus. Viral selection is complicated. Yes, in the very long term, many viruses end up becoming less virulent, but others go in the other direction. > Can you say the same about the long term prospects of endless boosters on your body? I sure couldn't. I'm pretty dang confident that I can bound the risk from the vaccine to be much lower than the risk from COVID infection.
jmcgough 4y ago
> But you do you, is the point I've never understood this type of selfishness. If you get sick you will, on average, infect another 2-3 people. It's not just about you.
- busymom0 4y ago
  1. Covid shots do not prevent infection or transmission. 2. Since Delta, both vaxxed and unvaxxed cases have the same viral load. 3. Since December at least, boosted and vaxxed have higher RATE per 100k of covid infections. So whatever benefit one gets is individual benefit only and not getting others sick in any different way as the vaxxed folks do.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > 1. Covid shots do not prevent infection or transmission. It does look like there's about a 20-30% reduction of infection from random surveys of the population and from nucleocapsid seroprevalence assays; transmission-once-infected is very difficult to measure, but it would be surprising if it did not have some effect. > 2. Since Delta, both vaxxed and unvaxxed cases have the same viral load. There's a key fallacy here: we're looking at a population of cases detected by similar means and then found that they have similar viral loads. Not too surprising of a finding (survivorship bias, basically). There's some data indicating that viral copy assays are not good proxies for finding true infectious shedding -- and that vaccinated individuals can be much better in this regard despite having higher loads. e.g. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0 > 3. Since December at least, boosted and vaxxed have higher RATE per 100k of covid infections. This is absolutely and completely untrue. There's been a couple of times where the vaxxed have been higher in the data series, but the overwhelming trend in the data has been the opposite. e.g. right now in Santa Clara County, where I am, the unvaccinated case rate is approximately 268 per 100,000 per week; the fully vaccinated case rate is about 46 per 100,000. Of course, people who elect vaccination don't behave exactly the same as those who don't... and so many people in S.C.C. are vaccinated that the exact number of unvaccinated has some uncertainty (but it's not off by a factor of 5).
StillBored 4y ago
While I sorta tend to agree with you, this is a _RESULT_ of people refusing to take the vaccines (or do full lockdowns/wear masks/etc). Like the original SARs strains it should have been possible to eradicate through strong public health measures, one of which was vaccination. So, we can shrug this one off, because in the end it _only_ kills a percent or so of people, overwhelmingly already infirm or elderly. We may not be so lucky the next time, and this attitude _will_ get us in trouble when that happens.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  China literally locked down Shanghai and millions of people in their homes, had police everywhere monitoring, had almost no exceptions other than for the police, and literally boarded people in their homes, engaged every spying mechanism they had, did mandatory testing, for more than six weeks, and it did not stop COVID - but it is increasingly clear it only delayed it from spreading inevitably. Even WIRED, pro-vaccine, has written articles about all the people who died from the lockdown and inability to get medical care due to the restrictions. It was the most full, most strict lockdown physically possible and it still did not work and China is looking at needing to repeat it.
  - StillBored 4y ago
    After it already went endemic, and the transmissiblity went through the roof. Not sure why that is hard to understand. If this virus killed 95% of people would you be arguing against lockdowns? I think most people can agree that its one of those to little to late situations in china and they need to reconsider at this point, but that doesn't make what they are trying to do wrong.
    - mk81 4y ago
    - PKop 4y ago
      People that think the spread of this coronavirus could ever have been stopped, let alone without destroying social fabric, mental health and causing an economic depression/hyperinflation are insane.
JohnTHaller 4y ago
My under 40 triathlete friend with no comorbidities who wound up in the ICU for a month and needed two surgeries to drain his lungs would beg to differ. Or my buddy down the block under 40 with no cormorbities who is now on beta blockers for long term Covid. As would folks like my Dad who the vaccine and first booster didn't work on due to his suppressed immune system from receiving my kidney.
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  Lance Armstrong had advanced testicular cancer while competing and placing 6th in the Olympics in 1996. Comorbidities are tricky - and triathletes are a weird body type to build and maintain.
  - PKop 4y ago
    Yes extreme endurance can be immuno suppressive.
- nradov 4y ago
  With billions of cases around the world there will always be some outliers, but those are irrelevant for decision making. What does the data show?
- PKop 4y ago
  Careful with extreme endurance exercise, it can be immuno suppressive [0] I would advise a balance between weightlifting, moderate cardio, lots of sunlight exposure for Vitamin D and testosterone support, and a balanced diet. And yes there are instances of young, non co-morbid people dying from covid. Statistically, not that many, so I'm not worried about it. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475230/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475230/
  - dktokyo 4y ago
  - baremetal 4y ago
ccn0p 4y ago
Yes and this insanity is literally keeping large numbers of people from engaging in parts of society. Some conferences, meetups, and events still require attendees to be fully vaccinated with no testing option. I was unable to attend an event just last week for this reason. It's stunning.
- mcronce 4y ago
  You weren't unable to attend anything. You had an option to attend the event - get vaccinated. You chose to not attend the event. The only thing "keeping you" from it is you.
  - ccn0p 4y ago
    That's a great point. Next up, we'll make sure Muslims can't go to the same conference because they chose not to go. Maybe your next thought is the vaccine makes the conference safer. Let's play Choose your own Adventure. You have to sit next to someone on a crowded airplane in economy class for 3 hours and this person loves to talk. You get to choose that this person is either a) vaccinated, or b) tested negative for covid every day for the past 3 days. Which do you choose? It's fascinating and scary that fear has led our society to let segregation creep in under the guise of public health.
    - dktokyo 4y ago
      - dudeDDRrulez 4y ago
        There is no herd immunity in play with anyone vaccinated with COVID-19 mRNA vaccines. Please remove that from your vocabulary when referencing the vaccines for one reason: they do not provide immunity and never have. Hence there is not and will not be herd immunity from vaccinations alone. Please, spreading this nonsense does not help anyone. You are lying which makes you look bad (or if you think it’s actually true, it makes you look stupid).
woodruffw 4y ago
This kind of skepticism goes both ways: you could get COVID next week and discover that you have a latent comorbidity that otherwise would never have affected you. From a public health perspective, universal (or near-universal) vaccination is an unequivocal good. Given the sum of what we know about both COVID and any side effects of vaccination, this remains the case.
- PKop 4y ago
  This is an abuse of language: "universal vaccination" Is it a vaccine, or a therapy? Why does the supposed efficacy of the vaccines ability to prevent spread of covid wane so quickly? At best the vax is novel therapy that temporarily boosts immune system to fight the current strain. But whatever the side effects of this mechanism, they can accumulate with each successive round of boosters. Is it safe to keep taking these shots every 6 to 12 months? Who knows... but if they have to be repeatedly taken, they clearly do not effectively stop the spread of covid which the evidence shows. I'll take my chances as having good enough genetics and lifestyle, and being young enough, in aggregate to tip the scales well past the point where getting covid and whatever natural immunity that it provides is just fine. >latent comorbidity Yea and I can get hit by a bus tomorrow. The main comorbidities that dominate the stats as present in over 80% of deaths are obesity and age. I have neither. We have to be realistic here. Look at Haiti vs New Zealand regarding vax rates vs death rates. It is not unequivocally good.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    These questions presuppose a false dichotomy: vaccines can be therapeutic, prophylactic, or both. Simultaneously, they can be either sterilizing or attenuating with respect to the immunity they provide. The COVID vaccines are prophylactic and therapeutic. So far, they seem to be mostly attenuating with respect to their immunity, not unlike flu vaccines (in two regards: both weak cross-strain protection and much milder illness when infected with the targeted strain). Additionally, there's decent empirical evidence that "breakthrough" cases are generally less contagious. "Being realistic here" means getting a free, readily available vaccine that reduces the risk of serious illness or death. Separately, it means doing your civic duty to reduce load on our medical institutions and lessen the latent risk to those around you (who may have comorbidities that you are not privy to and are not entitled to be privy to).
somewhereoutth 4y ago
With Covid everything is fine until it isn't. Furthermore, it is pretty obvious that a non-replicating fragment of a pathogen given even every 6 months is going to cause less damage than the real thing (also available every 6 months the way things are going). Luckily we've done extensive trials to back that up.

busymom0 4y ago

1. Covid vax does not prevent long covid: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/05/25/long-covid-vaccines-slight-protection/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/05/25/long-covid-... 2. Healthy young people under 50 or even 60 were not dying or getting hospitalized. Whatever risk they want to take, they should be able to take it without mandates. Since the vax does not prevent infection or transmission, one is only taking individual risk and not affecting others.

jamroom 4y ago
Specific to the US which states had vaccine mandates?
- busymom0 4y ago
  I live in Canada. Here, unvaxxed weren't even allowed to air travel domestically. Nor did they recognize a negative PCR test or past infection natural immunity. Compassionate grounds such as taking care of sick family member, funeral etc were also not exempted. Everyone who were COVID+ despite being vaxxed were allowed to fly, go to gym, restaurant etc. Meanwhile, an unvaxxed person wasn't allowed to do the same even if they could show a negative PCR test.
  - vimwizard 4y ago
    >Everyone who were COVID+ despite being vaxxed were allowed to fly, go to gym, restaurant etc This isn't true at all, plenty of businesses have a no-symptoms policy. On the flip side, I don't think they could effectively screen everyone anyway.
    - busymom0 4y ago
      I am talking about Canada. We had one of the most draconian mandates. And these were enforced by Government orders, not simply businesses. We still have them actually in July 2022. Kids aren't allowed to go to summer camp without being 2 dose vaxxed. Travellers who are unvaxxed need to show a negative test at airport, another negative test on 8th day and quarantine for 14 days.

fernandotakai 4y ago

i took all three shots and got covid about two weeks ago. it was HARSH. no sense of smell, no sense of taste, 3 days with high-ish fever (39C), the body ache was crazy bad and worse of all: brain fog. i managed to avoid going to the hospital, but barely. and that's with 3 shots. i'm almost sure i would be in an ICU if i didn't get any shots.

blumomo 4y ago
> and that's with 3 shots. i'm almost sure i would be in an ICU if i didn't get any shots. How could we prove this hypothesis?
- woodruffw 4y ago
  It’s an anecdote, not a hypothesis.
  - peteradio 4y ago
    > i'm almost sure i would be in an ICU if i didn't get any shots. It's a meme really.
PKop 4y ago
What would the shots making you sicker look like? In any case, I never had any shots, got Covid last December, was sick for 3 days with a bad sore throat and recovered just fine shortly after. Many people are rightly not so obsessed with irrational safetyism and have no problems avoiding the vaccine and getting on with life.
henry_bone 4y ago
I am 49yo, male. I'm healthy, but mildly overweight. I was very fit prior to the lockdowns (Melbourne, Vic, Australia), but I lacked the disciplinary wherewithall to maintain that fitness over the past couple of years. I have chosen not to receive any Covid19 vaccinations and so I am "unvaccinated". I thought it was never going to happen, but eventually I contracted covid19, over Easter period this year. I too experienced myalgia, a mild fever. I also had a sore throat for about 2 days. I didn't completely lose my sense of smell, but coffee (for example) didn't taste great. Same with wine. That anosmia, such as it was, persisted for a week or two. But that's it really. It was all over in about 2.5 days. I would not describe what I experienced as "harsh". I've had Influenza, and that was harsh. Sat me on my arse for a solid week. But not this. By day 4, I was doing household chores and more or less back to normal (mild anosmia not withstanding). So, YMMV. :-)