5 ms·
> We could talk about taking from the rich, but actually the rich don’t consume all that much in aggregate, so that doesn’t help much (wealth and income don’t m
by psi75 4y ago
> We could talk about taking from the rich, but actually the rich don’t consume all that much in aggregate, so that doesn’t help much (wealth and income don’t matter for this purpose, only consumption).
This is certainly what traditional economics says (they consume, rather than invest) because it's what rich people want us to think, but it doesn't hold out.
For one thing, their private jets and charter flights eat up a lot of fuel. Their lifestyles aren't free.
Second, attribution is a hard problem. When all the poor people drive to work in offices in places chosen by rich people, to create surplus value for the rich, who is consuming all that gasoline? Is it the rich, who benefit from this economic system and the poor being forced to participate? Or is the poor, who are the ones directly buying and using the fuel? Hard to say; at the individual level, attribution is probably impossible.
Third, the whole notion of "poors consume; the rich invest" is only true in proportionate terms. Sure, the billionaires don't directly consume 100,000 times as much as average people--simply because that would be ridiculous. No one can eat 100,000 hamburgers for lunch. But they do consume 100-1000 times more than average people--fuel is a big one, and those 20,000-SF houses aren't cheap to maintain--and this adds up. Their footprint on resources is bad enough; their overuse of land is destructive--this kind of private wealth is a catastrophic misallocation of resources.
Finally, what tends to happen with the rich is that they don't put their money into direct consumption (because, again, there's no hedonic payoff to having 100,000 hamburgers for lunch; 99,995+ will go to waste) so much as they use what they have to further secure personal and familial advantages, both economic and political. That's what this investment is: the configuration of society by the last round's winners to ensure they'll win the next round. This has resulted in an economic system that benefits them and keeps the middle classes comfortable enough to survive but--you're right on this--is unsustainable.
You're absolutely correct to say that "hit the rich" is far from sufficient here. We in the middle class are going to need to sacrifice. Thing is, no one's going to sacrifice anything with the current upper class in charge. Would you give up anything for these people and the society they've built? I sure wouldn't. You can't ask people in the middle classes to eat less meat and fly less often if you're taking a private jet to Davos. Neoliberalism has a lot of problems, but a big one is that these WEF people have literally none of the moral authority on which they seem to believe they operate.
- mym1990 4y agoJust wondering, any sources for anything you’ve said here? Last time I checked, not every rich person has a private jet or 20,000 sq foot home, but I’ve been wrong before.
- MisterBastahrd 4y agoPoor people don't own investment capital. Prices are quick to rise, slow to lower, and the capital-owning class captures the difference as increased profits.
- thelastgallon 4y agoThe richest 1%— the more than 60 million people earning $109,000 a year—are by far the fastest-growing source of emissions. They live all over the world, with about 37% in the U.S. and more than 4.5% each in Brazil and China. [1] [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-wealth-carbon-emissions-inequality-powers-world-climate/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-wealth-carbon-emissi...
- mym1990 4y agoThis is very helpful, thank you!
- seibelj 4y agoSome jobs are far worse than others (working in a disgusting sewer) and others are far harder than others (managing an organization of thousands of people). No matter what the economic system, somehow you need to convince someone to work in the sewer and operate complex orgs of thousands of people. One option is to use a gun - you point it at people you don’t like and make them sewer workers. Another is to arbitrarily hire and have no consequences. This leads to incompetence and mismanagement, as often happens in government everywhere and in socialist / communist nations that nationalize industries and staff them with political hires. In capitalist societies we give more stuff to people who do hard jobs and / or are highly effective. This is the carrot - work a high stress or shitty job and get more stuff. The stick for failure is you get less stuff, but at least you aren’t shot in the head as they do in other systems. You can argue until you’re blue in the face about neolibs / the rich / whatever. Doesn’t change the fact that inequality is a requirement for society to function if you expect someone to work in shit-filled holes underground all day while others pontificate about philosophy.