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The counterpoint is that regional support for the Nazis generally indicates the opposite. Their weakest electoral performance was in the West and South, which g

The counterpoint is that regional support for the Nazis generally indicates the opposite. Their weakest electoral performance was in the West and South, which generally was the wealthiest and most liberal part of Germany. By contrast their base of support was the Prussian hinterlands which was already the most militaristic part of the country to begin with, as well as having a weak region economy. I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One. It’s hard to overstate how central the prestige of the military was to the national consciousness of the German Empire. The failure of the military was largely internalized as a failure of German culture itself. The Nazis offered a do-over, revisionist view of World War One, and a promise to restore Germany’s traditional militaristic prestige. (Not to mention being directly astroturfed by the old guard of the General Staff.) German liberals were more than happy with “comfort and safety”. It was the traditionalists stuck in the pre-liberal past that dragged the country into “struggle and self-sacrifice”

Animats 4y ago
"I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One." Under-appreciated today, well-known at the time. See the beginning of "Triumph of the Will".
ProjectArcturis 4y ago
Yes, the Nazi appeal was largely a response to the absolutely crazy things that had happened to Germany between 1914 and 1933. Losing a world war, and all the death and humiliation and privation that entails (The winter of 1916 was known as the Turnip Winter, because of food shortages, and that was barely halfway through the war!). Hyperinflation, where an egg might cost a billion marks. Then a Depression! And all the while, a ton of money gets siphoned off to pay reparations to the WW1 allies. I'm not at all saying Nazism was justified. I'm saying that the insane German experience over the 20 years leading up to it had caused the average German citizen to accept extremely radical solutions.
- etempleton 4y ago
  It is always a poor choice to humiliate your opponent after defeating them. You either completely annihilate them or help them back up.
- galaxyLogic 4y ago
  I'm not sure Germany's condition was very exceptional. (What about Italy?) It was more that Nazis simply got into power and once they were in power it was no longer a question of whether the average German accepted it or not. And once Nazis were in power they had the propaganda machinery of the state to make people believe them. It could happen here too, almost did on January 6th. And in Russia, it's a crime to criticize the war.
  - Akronymus 4y ago
    > It was more that Nazis simply got into power They got helped quite a bit by fighting communists at the time. They legit were the lesser evil to a lot of people.
    - galaxyLogic 4y ago
      I would say "communists" were just fascists by another name. The distinguishing factor is does one support democracy, or not.
- belorn 4y ago
  Two third of the population was unemployed, and as orewell write here "the situation in Germany, with its seven million unemployed, was obviously favourable for demagogues". Starving, economical depression and without any hope in sight. Then within a couple of years half or more of those previous unemployed got a job from the government and the government refused to do any more reparations and redirecting those fund back to the populace (farmed food was a common item in reparations).
  - imtringued 4y ago
    Meanwhile Silvio Gesell just wanted a simple currency and land reform at the time to make it easier to pay off the reparations without dooming the country into poverty. Nowadays people write books how he was literally worse than Hitler. It is kind of amusing how easy it is to be hated by everyone because you have a difficult to attack argument. Is the idea of negative interest rates really that taboo? I personally got interested in negative interest rates due to macro economic balance mechanics which don't even require the existence of a real economy to justify negative interest rates. If you want to shrink the money supply without causing a deflationary spiral you must lower the interest rate below zero so that the real interest rate is zero which is fair for consumers and savers alike.
khazhoux 4y ago
> I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One FWIW I thought this was very widely understood as a leading cause.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  Yes, if anything it's over-appreciated in public consciousness. The Russian revolution and the Great Depression were also crucially important events that explain the rise of the Nazis.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    It's more like the depression before WW1, the hyperinflation in 1923 and the great depression all combined resulted in Nazis gaining power.
    - hackerlight 4y ago
      I'm familiar with these two things: - The Great Depression was the acute and proximate cause behind the rise in support for the Nazis. Their popularity went up by ~20-30% due to this one event. - The Russian Revolution and the attempts of communist revolutionaries in Germany in 1919 was the defining event of Hitler's psyche, according to historian Ian Kershaw > depression before WW1, the hyperinflation in 1923 I'd be interested to read more about this.
unmole 4y ago
> I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One. Huh? Even school textbooks talk about how the humiliating terms of the Treaty of Versailles lead to the rise of Hitler. Or as my high school history teacher joked: WW2 started in 1919.
- licebmi__at__ 4y ago
  And still even people who agree with this point, will give all kind of validation and mysticisms on the nazi ideology. I mean I might be wrong, but I would be surprised if GGP didn’t also heard/agreed with the historical factors from WWI that explain WWII, but still the discussion went with human nature and a ideology about violence.

Animats 4y ago

"I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One." Under-appreciated today, well-known at the time. See the beginning of "Triumph of the Will".

ProjectArcturis 4y ago

Yes, the Nazi appeal was largely a response to the absolutely crazy things that had happened to Germany between 1914 and 1933. Losing a world war, and all the death and humiliation and privation that entails (The winter of 1916 was known as the Turnip Winter, because of food shortages, and that was barely halfway through the war!). Hyperinflation, where an egg might cost a billion marks. Then a Depression! And all the while, a ton of money gets siphoned off to pay reparations to the WW1 allies. I'm not at all saying Nazism was justified. I'm saying that the insane German experience over the 20 years leading up to it had caused the average German citizen to accept extremely radical solutions.

etempleton 4y ago
It is always a poor choice to humiliate your opponent after defeating them. You either completely annihilate them or help them back up.
galaxyLogic 4y ago
I'm not sure Germany's condition was very exceptional. (What about Italy?) It was more that Nazis simply got into power and once they were in power it was no longer a question of whether the average German accepted it or not. And once Nazis were in power they had the propaganda machinery of the state to make people believe them. It could happen here too, almost did on January 6th. And in Russia, it's a crime to criticize the war.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  > It was more that Nazis simply got into power They got helped quite a bit by fighting communists at the time. They legit were the lesser evil to a lot of people.
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    I would say "communists" were just fascists by another name. The distinguishing factor is does one support democracy, or not.
belorn 4y ago
Two third of the population was unemployed, and as orewell write here "the situation in Germany, with its seven million unemployed, was obviously favourable for demagogues". Starving, economical depression and without any hope in sight. Then within a couple of years half or more of those previous unemployed got a job from the government and the government refused to do any more reparations and redirecting those fund back to the populace (farmed food was a common item in reparations).
- imtringued 4y ago
  Meanwhile Silvio Gesell just wanted a simple currency and land reform at the time to make it easier to pay off the reparations without dooming the country into poverty. Nowadays people write books how he was literally worse than Hitler. It is kind of amusing how easy it is to be hated by everyone because you have a difficult to attack argument. Is the idea of negative interest rates really that taboo? I personally got interested in negative interest rates due to macro economic balance mechanics which don't even require the existence of a real economy to justify negative interest rates. If you want to shrink the money supply without causing a deflationary spiral you must lower the interest rate below zero so that the real interest rate is zero which is fair for consumers and savers alike.

khazhoux 4y ago

> I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One FWIW I thought this was very widely understood as a leading cause.

hackerlight 4y ago
Yes, if anything it's over-appreciated in public consciousness. The Russian revolution and the Great Depression were also crucially important events that explain the rise of the Nazis.
- imtringued 4y ago
  It's more like the depression before WW1, the hyperinflation in 1923 and the great depression all combined resulted in Nazis gaining power.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    I'm familiar with these two things: - The Great Depression was the acute and proximate cause behind the rise in support for the Nazis. Their popularity went up by ~20-30% due to this one event. - The Russian Revolution and the attempts of communist revolutionaries in Germany in 1919 was the defining event of Hitler's psyche, according to historian Ian Kershaw > depression before WW1, the hyperinflation in 1923 I'd be interested to read more about this.

unmole 4y ago

> I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One. Huh? Even school textbooks talk about how the humiliating terms of the Treaty of Versailles lead to the rise of Hitler. Or as my high school history teacher joked: WW2 started in 1919.

licebmi__at__ 4y ago
And still even people who agree with this point, will give all kind of validation and mysticisms on the nazi ideology. I mean I might be wrong, but I would be surprised if GGP didn’t also heard/agreed with the historical factors from WWI that explain WWII, but still the discussion went with human nature and a ideology about violence.