4 ms·

> 50 year old man, it's bloody weird anyone spending this much time online, but to be outdoors, or at a bar, or a restaurant with your partner, or looking after

> 50 year old man, it's bloody weird anyone spending this much time online, but to be outdoors, or at a bar, or a restaurant with your partner, or looking after your kids, or looking at a sunset, or on the beach - and be constantly in your phone - this is insane. You have a great point here. Thinking about this. When I was young I spend an unnatural, lot of time in front of screens. Here is what I did: I learned BASIC, REXX, C, x86 assembler, Pascal, and Prolog. I learned to make software for a home comuputer, then for a real PC. It was productive, made money for me, and helped me develop a skillset that has resulted in six companies created, a couple hundred people having jobs, and a decent life for my family. I have exactly zero regrets for spending time with the computer. What if the device was a phone? You can't even create software for a mobile phone with the phone. I guess I would have consumed a lot of content, and posted a lot of videos. Maybe I'd be able to build an audience, and make some cash from my gofundme or patreon. Maybe. > Living a life, a real life, with real relationships and real sunsets and real beaches - is an enormous privilege. Many of us are wasting it. Life is short. Leave your phone at home, and truly live it. This is really great advice. Or at least delete all the distraction as a service apps. The best feature on a phone is the camera and maps app. One is for capturing and sharing memories, and the other is for finding your way to friends and adventure to make those memories.

SiberianDweller 4y ago
Yes, it's almost impossible to create software from smartphone. But it is possible to create some civil disorder, class action or at least a little shitstorm in Twitter.
NalNezumi 4y ago
It's easy now in retrospect to say "those hours glued in front of the PC turned out good" and jump to "but that's not the case for todays kids" with a rose tinted glass. It reminds me of something a friend told me about a youtuber called mister beast(or something); how in an interview he said he was practically raised with youtube as his sole life, spend all waking hours thinking "what would buzz on YouTube?" and not just him, he would talk about this with his fellow content creator, like they were obsessed. Afaik the guy is doing really well. Now replace "YouTube" with whatever programming language you mentioned and you can see a similar story. And the other side of your coin "glued in front of PC" is people like me who spent 16h a day of my Highschool year playing online games that lead to absolutely nothing except maybe a little bit better English knowledge. When you're looking at kids glued to the phone, you're looking at how the generation above me/us looked at me,and not you. And I think I'm in the majority of people that was glued in front of the PC; Nothing "productive" really came out of it
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  As well as that, YouTube is more accessible for most people. Programming will never be for everyone. It requires a certain mindset. Personally for me making YouTube videos is very hard, much harder than programming. I hate making them and I hate watching them just as much. But I'm an outlier and I realize that.
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  > It reminds me of something a friend told me about a youtuber called mister beast(or something); how in an interview he said he was practically raised with youtube as his sole life, spend all waking hours thinking "what would buzz on YouTube?" and not just him, he would talk about this with his fellow content creator, like they were obsessed.. Afaik the guy is doing really well. I understand what you're trying to say about this generational view of youngsters being into the latest fad tech not being viewed as productive by the older people in their lives. I think mr. beast is an awful example. You picked one of the most successful and well known youtubers. For every one of him, there are millions of unsuccessful individuals with youtube channels or other social media "jobs." Survivorship bias is real here. The income distribution is extremely top heavy and unfair. > When you're looking at kids glued to the phone, you're looking at how the generation above me/us looked at me,and not you. And I think I'm in the majority of people that was glued in front of the PC; Nothing "productive" really came out of it. You're right that for the most part nothing productive comes from consuming entertainment as such for the vast majority of consumers of social media, especially when young. I'm still unsure of where I stand on this issue, but I'm certainly more cognizant of the costs of social media and so forth than the benefits.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  >> Afaik the guy is doing really well. He has like 100M subscribers and 16.5 billion views and counting. So yep, doing "OK". It's very, VERY dangerous to look at the peak of a mountain and try to extrapolate ANYTHING from a single data point. Comparing the history & outcome of someone like this with your personal experience isn't likely to be very valuable, but nothing you've presented discredits that neither of these approaches are likely to lead to enjoyable, fulfilling lives.
- 4y ago
GekkePrutser 4y ago
> Thinking about this. When I was young I spend an unnatural, lot of time in front of screens. Here is what I did: I learned BASIC, REXX, C, x86 assembler, Pascal, and Prolog. I learned to make software for a home comuputer, then for a real PC. It was productive, made money for me, and helped me develop a skillset that has resulted in six companies created, a couple hundred people having jobs, and a decent life for my family. I have exactly zero regrets for spending time with the computer. Didn't you get pushback from that from your parents or family? In the 80s spending so much time on the computer was much more 'weird' than spending as much time on a phone is now. Remember people calling us nerds and saying we'd get square eyes? I don't hear anyone complaining about this in regards to mobiles now.
- indymike 4y ago
  > Didn't you get pushback from that from your parents or family? No, my parents were ok with it as long as I took care of the lawn (my Dad had MS and couldn't chase the mower) and didn't flunk out of high school. I also got a job programming at age 16 (writing medical diagnostic aids), and so they saw me making very good money for a 16 year old. > In the 80s spending so much time on the computer was much more 'weird' than spending as much time on a phone is now. I really don't have a good reference on what normal was. I spent a lot of time with the computer, put a lot of miles on training for cycling, and played soccer and went to school in between. I just did my thing, and didn't really worry about it.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    > I really don't have a good reference on what normal was. I spent a lot of time with the computer, put a lot of miles on training for cycling, and played soccer and went to school in between. I just did my thing, and didn't really worry about it. Well it was kinda normal for nerds. But nerds were not really 'normal' (though very common anyhow!). I think for people born later it's hard to understand since IT is now taken in much higher regard. I mean if I tell people I'm in IT/Cybersec at a meetup they're usually like "wow cool" which exactly the opposite of what would happen in the 80s :D You'd be viewed as a total dork wasting their time. You don't sound like a typical nerd though. Most of my nerd friends (and certainly myself) would not do any kind of sports. Especially teamsports.
skeeter2020 4y ago
>> The best feature on a phone is the camera and maps app. One is for capturing and sharing memories, and the other is for finding your way to friends and adventure to make those memories. I agree strongly with the rest of your post, but then you highlight the two biggest offending aspects of our current society: (1) Everyone is so busy capturing and sharing "memories" they're not actually experiencing them in the first place, (2) When we're trying to get somewhere we don't even look up to ask where are we right now IN RELATION to where we'd like to go before pulling out our device. The second is particularly odd to me, as my father (now in his 70's) did all sorts of adventure travelling as I was growing up with nothing more than paper maps and I now watch him routinely ask for gps directions to places he's been dozens of times. It makes me sad.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  Agree on this one. I went to a concert this week. When the concert started, thousands of smartphones were raised in the air and many people spent an awful amount of time grabbing ugly videos with saturated sound. I was guilty of grabbing a 1min one. Do we really enjoy the moment as well when grabbing everything. I doubt it.
  - bonoboTP 4y ago
    Taking some pictures is great. Having some pics to look at a vacation years down the line is good for refreshing memories and emotions and to relive those moments. But that's achievable with a few pictures a day, whereas many people now take hundreds or more and never even look at them again. It's like hoarding behavior or bookmarking web pages or buying books you never end up opening.
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      My experience is that taking pictures is only worth it if you print them quickly and put them in an album with comments. I and my daughters will very often grab a photo album randomly in the living room and enjoy remembering those moments. The digital albums? They only serve as a backup thanksfully synched remotely in case my house burn. Normal non pro photographs human beings have very little energy to organize/tag/process their pictures, they mostly lie forgotten until google photos remember them of those moments, more often than not showcasing the ugiest badly framed photos.

SiberianDweller 4y ago

Yes, it's almost impossible to create software from smartphone. But it is possible to create some civil disorder, class action or at least a little shitstorm in Twitter.

NalNezumi 4y ago

It's easy now in retrospect to say "those hours glued in front of the PC turned out good" and jump to "but that's not the case for todays kids" with a rose tinted glass. It reminds me of something a friend told me about a youtuber called mister beast(or something); how in an interview he said he was practically raised with youtube as his sole life, spend all waking hours thinking "what would buzz on YouTube?" and not just him, he would talk about this with his fellow content creator, like they were obsessed. Afaik the guy is doing really well. Now replace "YouTube" with whatever programming language you mentioned and you can see a similar story. And the other side of your coin "glued in front of PC" is people like me who spent 16h a day of my Highschool year playing online games that lead to absolutely nothing except maybe a little bit better English knowledge. When you're looking at kids glued to the phone, you're looking at how the generation above me/us looked at me,and not you. And I think I'm in the majority of people that was glued in front of the PC; Nothing "productive" really came out of it

GekkePrutser 4y ago
As well as that, YouTube is more accessible for most people. Programming will never be for everyone. It requires a certain mindset. Personally for me making YouTube videos is very hard, much harder than programming. I hate making them and I hate watching them just as much. But I'm an outlier and I realize that.
formerkrogemp 4y ago
> It reminds me of something a friend told me about a youtuber called mister beast(or something); how in an interview he said he was practically raised with youtube as his sole life, spend all waking hours thinking "what would buzz on YouTube?" and not just him, he would talk about this with his fellow content creator, like they were obsessed.. Afaik the guy is doing really well. I understand what you're trying to say about this generational view of youngsters being into the latest fad tech not being viewed as productive by the older people in their lives. I think mr. beast is an awful example. You picked one of the most successful and well known youtubers. For every one of him, there are millions of unsuccessful individuals with youtube channels or other social media "jobs." Survivorship bias is real here. The income distribution is extremely top heavy and unfair. > When you're looking at kids glued to the phone, you're looking at how the generation above me/us looked at me,and not you. And I think I'm in the majority of people that was glued in front of the PC; Nothing "productive" really came out of it. You're right that for the most part nothing productive comes from consuming entertainment as such for the vast majority of consumers of social media, especially when young. I'm still unsure of where I stand on this issue, but I'm certainly more cognizant of the costs of social media and so forth than the benefits.
skeeter2020 4y ago
>> Afaik the guy is doing really well. He has like 100M subscribers and 16.5 billion views and counting. So yep, doing "OK". It's very, VERY dangerous to look at the peak of a mountain and try to extrapolate ANYTHING from a single data point. Comparing the history & outcome of someone like this with your personal experience isn't likely to be very valuable, but nothing you've presented discredits that neither of these approaches are likely to lead to enjoyable, fulfilling lives.
4y ago

GekkePrutser 4y ago

> Thinking about this. When I was young I spend an unnatural, lot of time in front of screens. Here is what I did: I learned BASIC, REXX, C, x86 assembler, Pascal, and Prolog. I learned to make software for a home comuputer, then for a real PC. It was productive, made money for me, and helped me develop a skillset that has resulted in six companies created, a couple hundred people having jobs, and a decent life for my family. I have exactly zero regrets for spending time with the computer. Didn't you get pushback from that from your parents or family? In the 80s spending so much time on the computer was much more 'weird' than spending as much time on a phone is now. Remember people calling us nerds and saying we'd get square eyes? I don't hear anyone complaining about this in regards to mobiles now.

indymike 4y ago
> Didn't you get pushback from that from your parents or family? No, my parents were ok with it as long as I took care of the lawn (my Dad had MS and couldn't chase the mower) and didn't flunk out of high school. I also got a job programming at age 16 (writing medical diagnostic aids), and so they saw me making very good money for a 16 year old. > In the 80s spending so much time on the computer was much more 'weird' than spending as much time on a phone is now. I really don't have a good reference on what normal was. I spent a lot of time with the computer, put a lot of miles on training for cycling, and played soccer and went to school in between. I just did my thing, and didn't really worry about it.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > I really don't have a good reference on what normal was. I spent a lot of time with the computer, put a lot of miles on training for cycling, and played soccer and went to school in between. I just did my thing, and didn't really worry about it. Well it was kinda normal for nerds. But nerds were not really 'normal' (though very common anyhow!). I think for people born later it's hard to understand since IT is now taken in much higher regard. I mean if I tell people I'm in IT/Cybersec at a meetup they're usually like "wow cool" which exactly the opposite of what would happen in the 80s :D You'd be viewed as a total dork wasting their time. You don't sound like a typical nerd though. Most of my nerd friends (and certainly myself) would not do any kind of sports. Especially teamsports.

skeeter2020 4y ago

>> The best feature on a phone is the camera and maps app. One is for capturing and sharing memories, and the other is for finding your way to friends and adventure to make those memories. I agree strongly with the rest of your post, but then you highlight the two biggest offending aspects of our current society: (1) Everyone is so busy capturing and sharing "memories" they're not actually experiencing them in the first place, (2) When we're trying to get somewhere we don't even look up to ask where are we right now IN RELATION to where we'd like to go before pulling out our device. The second is particularly odd to me, as my father (now in his 70's) did all sorts of adventure travelling as I was growing up with nothing more than paper maps and I now watch him routinely ask for gps directions to places he's been dozens of times. It makes me sad.

prmoustache 4y ago
Agree on this one. I went to a concert this week. When the concert started, thousands of smartphones were raised in the air and many people spent an awful amount of time grabbing ugly videos with saturated sound. I was guilty of grabbing a 1min one. Do we really enjoy the moment as well when grabbing everything. I doubt it.
- bonoboTP 4y ago
  Taking some pictures is great. Having some pics to look at a vacation years down the line is good for refreshing memories and emotions and to relive those moments. But that's achievable with a few pictures a day, whereas many people now take hundreds or more and never even look at them again. It's like hoarding behavior or bookmarking web pages or buying books you never end up opening.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    My experience is that taking pictures is only worth it if you print them quickly and put them in an album with comments. I and my daughters will very often grab a photo album randomly in the living room and enjoy remembering those moments. The digital albums? They only serve as a backup thanksfully synched remotely in case my house burn. Normal non pro photographs human beings have very little energy to organize/tag/process their pictures, they mostly lie forgotten until google photos remember them of those moments, more often than not showcasing the ugiest badly framed photos.