9 ms·
Training my sense of CO2 ppm
- h2odragon 4y agopeople on supplemental oxygen sometimes get CO2 problems; the oxymeter shows good numbers but they're acting drunk or feeling poorly otherwise. Apparently its sneaky and cumulative; a few moments wont do much but as time goes on you get fizzier.
- EvanAnderson 4y ago> ...but as time goes on you get fizzier. While I'm fairly certain you meant "fuzzier" I can't help but thinking about bubbly blood full of dissolved CO2.
- h2odragon 4y agoI think thats pretty much the case.
- taxicabjesus 4y agoSupplemental oxygen usually causes hypocapnia (low blood CO2). Adding a little CO2 prevents hypocapnia.
- post-factum 4y agoI've bought [1] and coupled it with Zabbix using [2]. Now I have a pretty realtime graph and a strong reasoning to air my room more often. [1] https://www.tfa-dostmann.de/en/product/co2-monitor-airco2ntrol-mini-31-5006/ https://www.tfa-dostmann.de/en/product/co2-monitor-airco2ntr... [2] https://codeberg.org/pf-monitoring/airco2ntrold https://codeberg.org/pf-monitoring/airco2ntrold
- ohm 4y agoNot sure if they still make them with speakers that sound like life support monitors in the hospital, but if the beeping is too annoying you can just open the back and break off the speaker with pliers.
- post-factum 4y agoWell, so far I haven't heard any beeps.
- robocat 4y agoAmazon link: https://www.amazon.com/CO2Meter-RAD-0301-Mini-Monitor-White/dp/B00H7HFINS/ref=sr_1_22 https://www.amazon.com/CO2Meter-RAD-0301-Mini-Monitor-White/... Artwork slightly different, but appears to be same product: “Using NDIR CO2 Sensor Technologies; Technical Specifications: CO2 Measurement Range: 0-3,000 ppm; Response Time: < 2 Minutes; Accuracy: 0-2,000 ppm ± 100 ppm or ± 7% of reading; Sensor Life Expectancy: 15 years”.
- convexfunction 4y agoI'm not convinced this is truly the same product. A highly-rated review and some questions seem to say it does auto-zeroing and assumes the lowest concentration seen over some period of time is "outside", which as I understand it wouldn't be necessary if it were dual beam NDIR?
- Titan2189 4y agoDoes it allow you to read data via USB or is that just the power supply?
- post-factum 4y agoIt does allow reading data via USB.
- kadoban 4y agoIs there any kind of CO2 scrubbing that's at all practical for home? I'm curious what the effects would be of going below ambient/outdoor levels, especially since those are rising (if slowly).
- CoastalCoder 4y agoFrom some (personal) research I did several years ago, I think good ventilation is by far the biggest concern. A well-sealed, occupied room can build up significant CO2 levels pretty quickly. In my particular case, one person, not exercising, could bring CO2 above 800ppm (reported) in just a few hours. So I think lack of ventilation causes way, way more excess CO2 than is caused by recent increases in atmospheric CO2. At least in my suburban neighborhood; maybe it's a lot worse in a dense city.
- kadoban 4y agoMy issue with that is that in the summer, ventilation is ~impossible. It's 110 degrees out there, reasonable ventilation would mean either burning out my A/C or living with temps that are far too high.
- CoastalCoder 4y agoInteresting problem. Mind sharing roughly where that is?
- kadoban 4y agoAh, yeah, Phoenix summers. I believe parts of Texas and some other places are somewhat similar. In the winter the situation is _much_ better, but probably 4 months out of the year, the outdoors are unlivable.
- jasonpeacock 4y agoDue to climate change, that's could be pretty much anywhere it's summer. E.g. check out the UK: https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2022/red-extreme-heat-warning https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weat...
- Aulig 4y agoI have a qingping air monitor lite, which was around $70. It also measures PM10 and PM2,5 which helped me show that my wood furnace is indeed leaking something sometimes when I noticed it smelling weird.
- CoastalCoder 4y agoI think the elephant in the room is calibration of the CO2 detector. When I looked into this a few years ago, I couldn't find any accuracy guaranties for CO2 meters marketed for households / greenhouses. The closest thing I could find were laboratories that could test CO2 meters in chambers with known CO2 concentrations. But IIRC the pricing for those labs was prohibitively expensive. - There were literally no guaranteed accuracy bounds for the meters I looked at. So they could be off by 3x reality for all I know. - Their calibration systems relied on an assumed CO2 concentration for outside air. But even if the calibration system ensured that the meter would report the right number for that CO2 concentration, there was no information about how accurate the calibrated meter would be at other CO2 concentrations. Nor information about how the meter's numbers would be off when the CO2 levels observed during calibration differed from the level assumed by the calibration logic. These limitations might not be a problem for some applications. But they could be an issue when people want to relate their meters' readings to the numbers used in various research publications.
- rootusrootus 4y agoThe Aranet 4 claims it can measure up to 5000 ppm with +-3% accuracy. But you'd have to take their word for it, I guess. For $250 I'm hoping it's not a crap sensor.
- MatteoFrigo 4y agoThe usual convention is that the accuracy refers to full-scale measurements. I.e., your device has an error of +-3%*5000ppm = +-150ppm. At ~400ppm you are about 37% off. Human exhaust breath contains about 5000ppm CO2, so this device is decent for measuring humans. It's less decent to measure atmospheric CO2. Edit: looking at the datasheet, the device claims +-30ppm and 3% of reading, which I interpret as "whichever is greater". Thus, the device would be +-30ppm up to 1000ppm, and 3% of the reading above 1000ppm.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y agoI interpret the error as a sum, i.e. at 500 ppm, an error of up to 45 ppm (30+0.03*500).
- whalesalad 4y agoI feel terrible above like 900/1000ppm but I’m sure it’s also a good proxy for whatever other garbage and voc’s are in the air. When my monitor reaches 800 I’ll throw my window exhaust fan on for a few hours to circulate the air in my home.
- hackerlight 4y agoHow many people, in what square metreage, over how many hours, does it take you to go from ambient levels to 800? I can take your figures and calculate the same for my conditions by rejiggering the input assumptions instead of buying a monitor.
- whalesalad 4y agoMe any my dog in a small 2 bedroom house.
- macNchz 4y agoI've had an Awair monitor for a few years and enjoy keeping a fairly close eye on the numbers, but from what I've experienced so far I'm convinced sure I'd be able to train myself to discern CO2 levels. If anything it has mostly just encouraged me to open the windows, even just for a bit, whenever possible, and to always use the kitchen exhaust fan with our gas stove (and motivated me to buy an induction range in the future).
- moduspol 4y agoSame here. I was truly surprised at how fast the CO2 goes up with our gas stove on. The only thing worse is when we use our unvented gas logs in the fireplace. We're switching houses next month and I'm seriously considering putting in an ERV. It's just a little tricky to explain to friends and family because it kind of makes you sound like a crazy person. But CO2 is measurable! And there is clear science about bad effects when it gets high!
- simondotau 4y agoPM2.5 is also measurable and is arguably the greater long-term concern to human health with respect to indoor combustion. (Not to mention the physics of fireplaces makes them counter-productive. They are effectively air pumps which suck in the warmest air inside your home and send it up the chimney. And that air has to be replaced from somewhere, most likely bitter cold outdoor air, through the many concealed cracks and crevices in your home.)
- jonstewart 4y agoYeah, I want to put in an ERV, too, to have the sense of fresh air all year round.
- colechristensen 4y agoEspecially if you do things like stirfry or anything which puts char on your food, particulate from the cooking food will be way more than from the cooking gas so induction won’t make a large difference. Ventilation and good hepa filtration will make a much bigger difference.
- binkHN 4y ago> I’m looking forward to the day when I can walk into a room and say, huh, feels like 800 in here... I've been this way for well over a year now. Almost two years ago I picked up an air monitor from Awair (yes, this was a pandemic related purchase because I was working so much from home) and I frequently checked what the CO2 was. Nowadays, as it starts hitting ~750ppm, without looking at the monitor I can tell it feels "stuffy" and I open a window.
- dQw4w9WgXcQ 4y agoWe need a study on what will kill you sooner, the CO2 levels or the need to anxiously monitor whether CO2 levels are too high in every single enclosed space you enter.
- simondotau 4y agoNothing wrong with a little anxiety if it serves as motivation towards a healthier life — whether that be diet, exercise, or a healthy environment. Besides, as a society, we have access to orders of magnitude more information than ever before and life expectancy doesn’t seem to be suffering for it.
- PragmaticPulp 4y agoCO2 concentrations are an ongoing topic of debate. There are studies that show no measurable cognitive changes up to CO2 concentrations in the thousands of PPM, while other studies seem to show cognitive changes at much lower amounts. I tend to think that people with CO2 sensors tend to over-focus on CO2, when really what they’re feeling is the general stuffiness of a room. CO2 isn’t the only thing that accumulates in the air in an enclosed space, but once you have a CO2 meter in hand you might think it’s the only thing that matters. That said, CO2 levels can be used to somewhat estimate the amount of rebreathing going on in a space. That is, the amount of air that you breathe in that has been exhaled by someone else. It’s not entirely pleasant, which can explain why people feel like they don’t like high CO2 levels
- paulcole 4y agoI wondered this too. Like yeah you’re going to be cognitively drained after being in a crowded closed meeting room for a long time. Is it because you were talking and working or because of the CO2.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dredmorbius 4y agoIf the sense lifts immediately (within seconds to a minute or so) after opening a door or window, I'd tend to suspect the atmosphere.
- paulcole 4y agoGood old placebo seems just as likely.
- stefantalpalaru 4y ago
- saaaaaam 4y agoI have a fantastic way that I’ve trained my CO2 sense: an Italian greyhound. Anything above 900ppm and he barks and gets quite frantic above 1100ppm. I’m now able to anticipate the barking and normally realise at about 850ppm that we need to go for a walk and open the windows. A vet friend theorised that because they have a completely disproportionate and crazy cardiopulmonary system (huge lungs and heart compared to overall volume) they are particularly sensitive to CO2 because they inhale more of it and it goes into their blood and brain much faster. As soon as we open a window he calms - in winter I don’t take him out, I just ventilate the room.
- bjoli 4y agoOn a related note: A friend of mine was exposed to high co2 levels while on a freight ship. He says it is the absolute worst feeling he has ever felt, with panic and convulsions and vomiting. He survived because a colleague of his managed to get him out. Kinda makes me wonder why it is still allowed in animal slaughter. It is cheap and gets the job done, but there must be better gasses. There are loads that just makes humans pass out, and it must be the same for animals.
- dredmorbius 4y agoThat sounds like it might have been carbon monoxide poisoning. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/carbon-monoxide/symptoms-causes/syc-20370642 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/carbon-monoxi... Though symptoms are quite similar to those of CO2 poisoning: https://www.emedicinehealth.com/wilderness_carbon_dioxide_toxicity/symptom.htm https://www.emedicinehealth.com/wilderness_carbon_dioxide_to... One of the symptoms of CO poisoning I've heard mentioned is of a sense of doom or dread.
- bjoli 4y agoNope, that was co2. It is similar to CO, but in animals at least it gives a more aversive reaction.
- anfractuosity 4y agoI'm currently playing with 2 NDIR co2 sensors connected to a pi (scd30 and MH-Z14), graphing the data using grafana. Curious what sensor the aranet4 uses. Edit: just found this teardown - https://kaspars.net/blog/aranet4-teardown https://kaspars.net/blog/aranet4-teardown
- lsh123 4y agoI have a cheap (about $20-25 a couple years ago) sensor from Amazon in my plane. It calibrates itself when I turn it on and I check it works on the ground before every flight - open the window after starting the engine and see co2 going up ;) Granted, I don’t really care about any small errors or small changes - I want the sensors to warn me if co2 concentration goes up significantly (e.g. because of leaks from exhaust system).
- travisjungroth 4y agoI've never heard of that. Do you have a CO sensor as well? Those are common, mostly in a very cheap one-time-use dot form.
- travisjungroth 4y agoI should say "disposable" instead of "one time use". https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/asaCO.php https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/asaCO.php
- ericpauley 4y agoAre you sure this isn’t a carbon monoxide (CO) sensor? While exhaust might increase CO2 as well, pilots are usually far more concerned about CO poisoning and usually use CO detectors.
- elif 4y agoI've been using the uHoo air monitor for the last few months. I have one in the bedroom, living room, and office. It monitors many air factors, but CO2 was my primary focus. My original goal was to have a fresh air intake activate automatically at certain concentration levels, if the outside ambient temperature/humidity were appropriate. However, living in a hot humid place, the data I got made that solution seem futile. Ventilation for CO2 alone takes so much air that it becomes basically a full reset on dehumidifying and conditioning. However, this failure lead me to the fortuitous discovery that by adding 36 hydroponic heads of lettuce, I am now going beyond outside CO2 levels, dipping down to 390-400 and only reaching ~700 overnight when it's the worst.
- teruakohatu 4y agoThat I'd very interesting. Is ther data on how much C02 is consumed by lettece?
- londons_explore 4y agoYou need to approximately grow as many kg of plants each day as you eat food each day. That's a lot of plants. Possible, but your house will feel more like a rainforest.
- elif 4y agoI run 2 dehumidifiers on top of air conditioning and stay under 60% (almost always under 54%). Also the hydroponics water the roots of the plants in a closed system so very little of the moisture is evaporated. Also I'm not sure about your calculation since poop. I would imagine it would be kg consumed - 0.45*kg pooped - house leakiness loss
- elif 4y agoFrom my calculations I was only expecting about an 80ppm difference, but in practice overnight when the humans and animals are in bedrooms, the living room with plants shoots down to 400 while before it would get about 550 in my leaky old house.
- 4y ago
- schwarze_pest 4y agoI don't know much about LoRa yet, but i would be interested to tinker with it. Can the LoRa radio of the Aranet4 PRO be used by alternative base stations or is it somehow locked down to their own Aranet PRO base station?