8 ms·

Menstrual changes after Covid vaccines far more common than previously known

25 points by orionion 4y ago

sn0w_crash 4y ago
- juanani 4y ago
- moistly 4y ago
  The vax is still orders of magnitude safer than catching SARS-COV-2.
  - jjgreen 4y ago
    That's true, but is not really relevant to sn0w_crash's observations.
    - bergenty 4y ago
      It is very relevant. It is because antivaxers created a violent and hostile environment that forces the opposition to become draconian.
      - brainphreeze 4y ago
        Just because you keep repeating this line, it doesn't make it true
        bergenty 4y ago
        Just because you said it isn’t doesn’t make it false either. On a more serious note, of course it’s true. Blocking traffic, picketing hospitals, calling for the death of medical professionals is violent behavior.
        MuchoMaas 4y ago
        Just to be clear about what actually transpired, traffic was blocked (a minor inconvenience) to protest mandates which were destroying people's livelihoods -- mandates which never had even the slightest scientific justification since they were all implemented well after the CDC Provincetown study in July showed the vaccinated spread COVID quite easily, but which the provax side continued to insist on through the fall and winter in a display of pointless stubbornness. Most of the hospital protests were also in reaction to mandates for staff, as well as the absolutely psychotic and vindictive policy many of them adopted of refusing to provide transplant surgery to the unvaccinated.
        moistly 4y ago
        It was a hell of a lot more than mere inconvenient protest. There were assaults at hospitals. Doctors and nurses had to take extra personal security measures. Ambulances were delayed and blocked. Patients were subjected to disruptive noise and din from dawn to late night. Vaccination clinics had bomb threats phoned in, and there were more assaults. Oh, and hospitals were overwhelmed by the non-immunized brainwashed, leading us to the current crisis of quitting, burned-out nurses and doctors, who just can’t take this shit any more. It was a hell of a lot more than “a minor inconvenience”.
        MuchoMaas 4y ago
        bergenty 4y ago
        Then they should act like respectable humans. Pillaging hospitals and violently attacking doctors is not your average citizen.
        MuchoMaas 4y ago
        "Pillaging" lmao what are you talking about?
      - Rebelgecko 4y ago
        Forces?
  - mancerayder 4y ago
    The vax doesn't prevent catching it, it only reduces the intensity of it.
  - MuchoMaas 4y ago
    There are some sizeable demographics for whom this may not be the case: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239 > The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    You'll catch it anyway but it's safer to catch it with the vax for sure
- dekhn 4y ago
  I've seen many dumb events happen in my lifetime, and there were a few months where large parts of the scientific establishment went into denial mode over COVID. Note that if you want to claim stuff like this, before you do so, you do an excellent study that can't be trivially refuted (it takes time and effort to steelman a paper and the PR before unleashing it). For example, the paper this article cites is: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34991109/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34991109/ The article ends with: "Our findings are reassuring; we find no population-level clinically meaningful change in menstrual cycle length associated with COVID19 vaccination. Our findings support and help explain the self-reports of changes in cycle length. Individuals receiving two COVID-19 vaccine doses in a single cycle do appear to experience a longer but temporary cycle length change." if the changes exist, but aren't medically important, there is stil a risk that many people will be vaccine-hesistant if they hear this in the news. The medical establishment skirted with hiding some legitimate results for this reason (I think they are re-evaluating whether this is a good idea, for the future). BTW, similar work by the same team was published in January (7 months ago) and NPR tweeted it, without being banned: https://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Fulltext/9900/Association_Between_Menstrual_Cycle_Length_and.357.aspx https://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Fulltext/9900/Associat... here's a tweet from almost a year ago addressing the issue of whether people were being ignored/dismissed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/vaccine-periods-womens-concerns-dismissed/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/vaccine-peri... with a bunch of discussion about exactly this.
- bergenty 4y ago
  It’s because you can’t have a reasonable discussion in an environment where the antivaxers are violent and hostile. The opposition is forced to put up a brick wall.
- icedistilled 4y ago
  For all of those items cited the context and purpose of the claim matter, and when those are considered the reactions were reasonable, albeit with varying touches of the knee-jerkiness defensiveness that can happen in response to some clearly naive person jumping to a totally unsupported conclusion and want to make life alter choices about it simply because they like the outcome. I.e. For Covid origins back in the day there wasn't a lot of info available to make any conclusions, but a lot of people acted like if the thing had leaked out of a lab we could just blame china and somehow that would mean we could go back to normal and also absolve the trump admin of any mismanaged response. Then with vaccines, they've always been clearly and obviously a net benefit versus remaining unvaxxed yet antivaxxers grab on to any report of rare or mild side effects and act like it's worse than the virus. And they question all the studies that show the vaccine is okay, yet trust poor trash studies on 46 people about horse dewormer. It's truly amazing to watch this stuff happen in real time, the knots people will contort themselves into, and the myopic analysis they'll swallow just because they wish something something was true.
- antiquark 4y ago
  > It’s really amazing to watch this stuff happen in real-time. You spelled "horrifying" wrong.
jleyank 4y ago
To be sure, the vax would have to be tested outside times of lockdown and (some) panic to be sure it’s the vax alone: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-stress-cause-you-to-skip-a-period/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-stress-cause-you-to-s... Given that exercise, behaviour, food distribution etc were altered particularly in 2020.
- MuchoMaas 4y ago
  Given the general 2020 media climate of hyping any random problems which could be attributed to "the pandemic," I feel like there would be at least one article from that period mentioning that women were experiencing menstruation changes before the vaccine rollout in early 2021.
  - jleyank 4y ago
    First google hit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/coronavirus-period-menstruation-disruption/2020/08/21/0966b79a-e332-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/coronaviru... 2020 sucked for various reasons as did parts of 2021. The unknown, wfh, breakdown of supply chains and travel, nasty business. Just saying there were all sorts of things that could be explained by nocebo as well as actual medical effects. Anti anxiety meds spiked big time: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/anti-anxiety-medication-prescriptions-have-spiked-34-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-04-16 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/anti-anxiety-medication-pr... No matter whether you believe in covid or not the world had a particularly sucky year or two that could have been a lot worse. How and where work is performed has seen significant changes. Hopefully, current generations won’t experience another one.
    - landemva 4y ago
      > the world had a particularly sucky year or two For me it was okay. Much of the western world lived in fear, so that sucked for them. In terms of world history, times have been worse. We aren't that special.
Proven 4y ago
MuchoMaas 4y ago
If this is happening in 42% of women, how could it possibly have been missed in the clinical trials?
- beepbeepcabbage 4y ago
  Because doctors historically give only about 60% of a shit what happens to AFAB bodies, less if that body isn't white.
- origin_path 4y ago
  If you keep up with the various revelations coming out about the trials it isn't surprising at all. They seem to have been deeply and fundamentally flawed to the extent that nothing they told us was true. Quite possibly due to deliberate fraud, judging from some of the events (search for details of people who died or were severely injured immediately after taking the shots yet were mysteriously not recorded as such).
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  From the article: Individuals who took part in Covid vaccine trials were not asked if they experienced menstrual changes.
  - MuchoMaas 4y ago
    Ah, good to know that this was the input being referenced when health authorities were issuing proclamations that there was definitely 0% chance of any impact on fertility from the mRNA vaccines. They didn't just have a broad, open-ended "did you notice anything was off?" question?
necovek 4y ago
I find it interesting that it's implied that non-white men are more considerate of women's periods: > There are very few senior people in science and medicine who are not white men. While this quote is likely true and uses a now common phrase of "white men" when one wants to highlight exclusionary approach, this would be better served with highlighting a more obvious group that has trouble remembering menstrual cycles: all men. Basically, that's what they were going for but through phrase getting ingrained in the modern lingo, focus is misplaced (not by much). I just find it funny how words can easily get a life of their own.

25 points by orionion 4y ago

juanani 4y ago
moistly 4y ago
The vax is still orders of magnitude safer than catching SARS-COV-2.
- jjgreen 4y ago
  That's true, but is not really relevant to sn0w_crash's observations.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    It is very relevant. It is because antivaxers created a violent and hostile environment that forces the opposition to become draconian.
    - brainphreeze 4y ago
      Just because you keep repeating this line, it doesn't make it true
      - bergenty 4y ago
        Just because you said it isn’t doesn’t make it false either. On a more serious note, of course it’s true. Blocking traffic, picketing hospitals, calling for the death of medical professionals is violent behavior.
        MuchoMaas 4y ago
        Just to be clear about what actually transpired, traffic was blocked (a minor inconvenience) to protest mandates which were destroying people's livelihoods -- mandates which never had even the slightest scientific justification since they were all implemented well after the CDC Provincetown study in July showed the vaccinated spread COVID quite easily, but which the provax side continued to insist on through the fall and winter in a display of pointless stubbornness. Most of the hospital protests were also in reaction to mandates for staff, as well as the absolutely psychotic and vindictive policy many of them adopted of refusing to provide transplant surgery to the unvaccinated.
        moistly 4y ago
        It was a hell of a lot more than mere inconvenient protest. There were assaults at hospitals. Doctors and nurses had to take extra personal security measures. Ambulances were delayed and blocked. Patients were subjected to disruptive noise and din from dawn to late night. Vaccination clinics had bomb threats phoned in, and there were more assaults. Oh, and hospitals were overwhelmed by the non-immunized brainwashed, leading us to the current crisis of quitting, burned-out nurses and doctors, who just can’t take this shit any more. It was a hell of a lot more than “a minor inconvenience”.
        MuchoMaas 4y ago
        bergenty 4y ago
        Then they should act like respectable humans. Pillaging hospitals and violently attacking doctors is not your average citizen.
        MuchoMaas 4y ago
        "Pillaging" lmao what are you talking about?
    - Rebelgecko 4y ago
      Forces?
- mancerayder 4y ago
  The vax doesn't prevent catching it, it only reduces the intensity of it.
- MuchoMaas 4y ago
  There are some sizeable demographics for whom this may not be the case: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239 > The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  You'll catch it anyway but it's safer to catch it with the vax for sure
dekhn 4y ago
I've seen many dumb events happen in my lifetime, and there were a few months where large parts of the scientific establishment went into denial mode over COVID. Note that if you want to claim stuff like this, before you do so, you do an excellent study that can't be trivially refuted (it takes time and effort to steelman a paper and the PR before unleashing it). For example, the paper this article cites is: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34991109/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34991109/ The article ends with: "Our findings are reassuring; we find no population-level clinically meaningful change in menstrual cycle length associated with COVID19 vaccination. Our findings support and help explain the self-reports of changes in cycle length. Individuals receiving two COVID-19 vaccine doses in a single cycle do appear to experience a longer but temporary cycle length change." if the changes exist, but aren't medically important, there is stil a risk that many people will be vaccine-hesistant if they hear this in the news. The medical establishment skirted with hiding some legitimate results for this reason (I think they are re-evaluating whether this is a good idea, for the future). BTW, similar work by the same team was published in January (7 months ago) and NPR tweeted it, without being banned: https://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Fulltext/9900/Association_Between_Menstrual_Cycle_Length_and.357.aspx https://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Fulltext/9900/Associat... here's a tweet from almost a year ago addressing the issue of whether people were being ignored/dismissed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/vaccine-periods-womens-concerns-dismissed/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/vaccine-peri... with a bunch of discussion about exactly this.
bergenty 4y ago
It’s because you can’t have a reasonable discussion in an environment where the antivaxers are violent and hostile. The opposition is forced to put up a brick wall.
icedistilled 4y ago
For all of those items cited the context and purpose of the claim matter, and when those are considered the reactions were reasonable, albeit with varying touches of the knee-jerkiness defensiveness that can happen in response to some clearly naive person jumping to a totally unsupported conclusion and want to make life alter choices about it simply because they like the outcome. I.e. For Covid origins back in the day there wasn't a lot of info available to make any conclusions, but a lot of people acted like if the thing had leaked out of a lab we could just blame china and somehow that would mean we could go back to normal and also absolve the trump admin of any mismanaged response. Then with vaccines, they've always been clearly and obviously a net benefit versus remaining unvaxxed yet antivaxxers grab on to any report of rare or mild side effects and act like it's worse than the virus. And they question all the studies that show the vaccine is okay, yet trust poor trash studies on 46 people about horse dewormer. It's truly amazing to watch this stuff happen in real time, the knots people will contort themselves into, and the myopic analysis they'll swallow just because they wish something something was true.
antiquark 4y ago
> It’s really amazing to watch this stuff happen in real-time. You spelled "horrifying" wrong.

To be sure, the vax would have to be tested outside times of lockdown and (some) panic to be sure it’s the vax alone: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-stress-cause-you-to-skip-a-period/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-stress-cause-you-to-s... Given that exercise, behaviour, food distribution etc were altered particularly in 2020.

MuchoMaas 4y ago
Given the general 2020 media climate of hyping any random problems which could be attributed to "the pandemic," I feel like there would be at least one article from that period mentioning that women were experiencing menstruation changes before the vaccine rollout in early 2021.
- jleyank 4y ago
  First google hit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/coronavirus-period-menstruation-disruption/2020/08/21/0966b79a-e332-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/coronaviru... 2020 sucked for various reasons as did parts of 2021. The unknown, wfh, breakdown of supply chains and travel, nasty business. Just saying there were all sorts of things that could be explained by nocebo as well as actual medical effects. Anti anxiety meds spiked big time: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/anti-anxiety-medication-prescriptions-have-spiked-34-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-04-16 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/anti-anxiety-medication-pr... No matter whether you believe in covid or not the world had a particularly sucky year or two that could have been a lot worse. How and where work is performed has seen significant changes. Hopefully, current generations won’t experience another one.
  - landemva 4y ago
    > the world had a particularly sucky year or two For me it was okay. Much of the western world lived in fear, so that sucked for them. In terms of world history, times have been worse. We aren't that special.

Proven 4y ago

MuchoMaas 4y ago

If this is happening in 42% of women, how could it possibly have been missed in the clinical trials?

beepbeepcabbage 4y ago
Because doctors historically give only about 60% of a shit what happens to AFAB bodies, less if that body isn't white.
origin_path 4y ago
If you keep up with the various revelations coming out about the trials it isn't surprising at all. They seem to have been deeply and fundamentally flawed to the extent that nothing they told us was true. Quite possibly due to deliberate fraud, judging from some of the events (search for details of people who died or were severely injured immediately after taking the shots yet were mysteriously not recorded as such).
_-david-_ 4y ago
From the article: Individuals who took part in Covid vaccine trials were not asked if they experienced menstrual changes.
- MuchoMaas 4y ago
  Ah, good to know that this was the input being referenced when health authorities were issuing proclamations that there was definitely 0% chance of any impact on fertility from the mRNA vaccines. They didn't just have a broad, open-ended "did you notice anything was off?" question?

necovek 4y ago

I find it interesting that it's implied that non-white men are more considerate of women's periods: > There are very few senior people in science and medicine who are not white men. While this quote is likely true and uses a now common phrase of "white men" when one wants to highlight exclusionary approach, this would be better served with highlighting a more obvious group that has trouble remembering menstrual cycles: all men. Basically, that's what they were going for but through phrase getting ingrained in the modern lingo, focus is misplaced (not by much). I just find it funny how words can easily get a life of their own.