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Solar Car Will Soon Hit Production

40 points by cheinyeanlim 4y ago

davmar 4y ago
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e65d6b2e-4f27-43dc-b4b7-be436559a60d https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e65d6b2e-4f27-43dc-b4b7-be43655...
metadat 4y ago
Maybe Larry Ellison and Mark Zuckerberg can go halfsies on one for their estate in Hawaii.
- cptskippy 4y ago
  Larry's still paying off that environmental remediation bill.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
> The car also boasts a “safety cell seven times stronger than steel,” for those worried that its unique design may not hold up well in an accident Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? > there’s also an option to put extra panels on the hood and hatch to add range Sounds dubious. Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? Website also states that me, living in boston, driving 40 miles a day would only need to charge 6 times a year? There's just no way that's accurate. Deeply skeptical of this one. Though I wouldn't hate a 20k electric triwheel car that didn't try to force the solar gimmick.
- IXxXI 4y ago
  > Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? If its the same design as the original failed aptera the shell is carbon fiber. There is a big question as to who is funding them as the original aptera motors had the same design & went bankrupt in 2011.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Yeah, that's nonsense.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Because of the downvotes I will explain my statement. The car has "a safety cell 7 times stronger than steel". That makes no sense. The strength of a physical object is a combination of the strength of its material(s), the geometry it's made into, and the joining method used to connect the parts. An object is not stronger than steel, a material is. Saying an object is stronger than steel means nothing.
- pengaru 4y ago
  > Sounds dubious. Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not primarily about charging while driving, it's increasing the range added from charge time while parked under the sun. Think parked all day while at work. It will increase the range of your commute to/from work, assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Shared404 4y ago
    > assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday. That seems like a very bad assumption to me.
    - qqqwerty 4y ago
      It seems like a perfectly reasonable assumption. The vast majority of parking spaces in existence are uncovered. And in cases where covered parking exists, there are usually uncovered options (for example in most parking garages that have a top uncovered floor, that floor tends to be the least occupied).
      - Shared404 4y ago
        I was more referring to weather. I love the idea of this vehicle, and if it performs as advertised I could see myself using it. However - I wouldn't want to bank on it charging during work to extend it's range every single workday. Overcast and rainy days happen almost everywhere, at least some times. Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them.
        pengaru 4y ago
        > Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them. They diminish output in proportion to the amount of light. In a charging situation where you require at least a certain voltage to push anything into the batteries, I presume it will just stop charging well before the panels are 100% dark.
- jonas21 4y ago
  > Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not just over the course of a drive. It's charging while your car is parked out in the sun all day long. > Website also states that me, living in boston, driving 40 miles a day would only need to charge 6 times a year? There's just no way that's accurate. Back of the envelope, that seems reasonable enough: 700 W * 12 hours/day * 2/pi (to account for sun angle over the course of the day) = ~5.4kWh/day. Cut that in half to account for lousy Boston weather, and you get 2.7 kWh/day. If they can get 10 mi/kWh (a Tesla gets ~4 mi/kWh), then that's 27 miles/day, which leaves you 13 miles/day short. Their battery provides 1000 miles of range, so you'd need to charge every 76 days, or about 5 times per year.
  - bragr 4y ago
    That still seems optimistic to me. These are non articulated panels, so I'd expect to see decent charging rates around local solar noon, but steep drop offs before and after, not to mention that any part of the panel being in shade will totally kill the efficiency.
  - breput 4y ago
    There is no way that rooftop area is even as large as a standard solar panel (say 200 ft²). Even the most efficient panel is no more than 350W, so you're cutting your "700 W" more than in half right off the bat. Discounting less efficient cells, road dirt, and non-perpendicular angles and we'll be generous and say 300 W. 12 hours/day is the maximum possible solar duration so you really need to cut that in half to account for a full year on Earth. So we're down to 1 kWh/day and realistically much less if you happen to park under a tree or a bird poops on your roof. That will hopefully get you to a charging station but not much further.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      There's several square meters on there, and they could be using high efficiency panels. 700W is perfectly reasonable. I have a 200W panel acting as shade over a tricycle which is much smaller and can easily charge a 1kWh battery in a day..
- wisty 4y ago
  These 3-wheeled "legally a motorbike" car things are always an unpopular niche. Fantastic efficiency and a low price, but most people would rather shell out for a full-sized car. They're legally motorbikes, so they are often not as safe as cars. This one boasts "eggshell" composites for crash safety, but often the lack of mass makes it hard to make these as safe as a heavier vehicle. 2 seats. It seems to have a lot of storage (25 cubic feet) but I bet it handles very badly if it's weighed down. I can't find any mention of performance. I bet it's relying a lot on the high low-end torque of electric motors, and aerodynamic design at high speeds, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still handles quite slowly. I found a claim somewhere that it's over 99mph, which isn't exactly stunning. There's already plenty of 3-wheeled EVs, the SARIT, ElectraMeccanica Solo, Spirtus EV as well as this one - https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheeled-vehicles/ https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheele... These things never do that well. It's not because they're a terrible idea, they just have a lot of compromises. Of course, if conventional cars are too expensive (either the high upfront cost of an EV, or the high running costs of a gas guzzler) then it does make them a little more attractive. Every time gas goes up, you see a bunch of people driving motorbikes or scooters to work to save money. Something that's legally a scooter but has a nice canopy could make a bit more sense, but it rarely seems to catch on.
  - incompatible 4y ago
    Where I live, having a license to drive a car doesn't give you a license to ride a motorcycle. You have to go through whole stages of training/certification.
    - Kon-Peki 4y ago
      That's the same where I live, but there are plenty of motorcycle learn-to-ride classes that cost maybe $200 and provide the motorcycle. On the last day of the course, a person from the state comes by, supervises the testing, and (if you pass) signs the paperwork to get your license. It's about as easy as it can be; if you want this Aptera thing a motorcycle license is not a barrier. What concerns me more is that they have their factory in Carlsbad, CA. I don't think there are too many worse places to put a factory if you have a price point to meet, and I doubt that there is any space to expand.
- 14 4y ago
  My electrician friend just told me the other day that the sun very conveniently produces a 1000w/square meter at high noon. Solar panels have an efficiency of around 20% give or take. That is in direct sunlight at high noon. So at peak time of day you can produce about 200w/square meter of solar panel. That’s not a whole lot of energy so adding extra panel to the hood won’t yield a lot of energy but I guess every bit helps.
- MrRiddle 4y ago
  > Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? Well, no. You have those zones + extremely strong cell. [0] https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY
- waldothedog 4y ago
  Re: crumple zones. I believe Smart cars feature a similar concept, most of the car is sacrificed on impact—the whole vehicle is a crumple zone—except the the two seats embedded in a tiny roll cage
bpodgursky 4y ago
I want this to succeed. I do! But when you need an artist's rendering to get a picture of your factory... there's probably some 0 to 1 work to be done first.
lastofthemojito 4y ago
From https://aptera.us/faq/ https://aptera.us/faq/: >Is Aptera a car? >No, Aptera is not a car. We call it a Solar Electric Vehicle, because it’s powered by the sun and also charged with batteries when plugged in. Technically speaking, Aptera can be classified as a motorcycle or auto-cycle. A helmet is not required because Aptera is enclosed, and the vast majority of states only require that you have a regular driver’s license to operate Aptera.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  They have to call it "not a car" for legal reasons (federal standards legally classify anything with less than four wheels as a motorcycle, regardless of its other qualities), but to anyone with eyes it's obviously a (weirdly-shaped) hatchback coupe.
- antisthenes 4y ago
  Aptera is vaporware. It's been a concept since at least 2006 in many different incarnations. I'm not sure if they've ever come closer to production than 1-2 prototypes driving around in a 1-minute promo video. Not sure they ever will, considering the incumbent competition (actual, real EVs on the road today)
  - namlem 4y ago
    They have a factory and the first deliveries are planned for later this year.
JetAlone 4y ago
I'm surprised, if the website isn't overselling this could actually be pretty good for the commuting I already do by train (zone 2, daily average of 20 miles). It's less ideal for where I'd rather live (zone 4, probably a higher daily average, with much less train access making a vehicle a better purchase) but still doesn't seem too bad at all. My gut feeling is "it's too good to be true". I wouldn't pre-order, but I will tentatively await to see early results. Also I part of me wants to pronounce it "a ptera" as in "a pterodactyl" rather than "ap-terra".
- drewg123 4y ago
  I pre-ordered this spring. The pre-order payment due is just $100. I've wasted more than that on plenty of dumber things in my life. If they can pull this off, it will be money well spent and I'll be thrilled to have one of the first cars they make.
  - JetAlone 4y ago
    Thanks for taking on the early-adopter risk.
3nwf248 4y ago
A 1 square meter solar panel generates 200W (when aimed perfectly at the sun). Since the car's top is a flat surface (as opposed to tilted towards the sun), that's cos(30) * 200W, or 173W. A typical compact car (Honda Civic) has a surface area of about 8 square meters if it were a perfect rectangle. That's 8 * 173 = 1.384 kW, or 1.86 horsepower under wildly optimistic circumstances. I call bullshit.
- keithnz 4y ago
  I'm pretty skeptical, and details are thin, but this is what they say in their FAQ... "Even though the longest range Aptera can drive for about 1,000 miles between charge, the reality is that most of our driving is 30 miles or less. For Aptera, 30 miles consumes about 3 kWh of electricity. Now, let’s say your commute is 15 miles each way, let’s assume it’s dark when you’re driving to and from work. While parked at the office on a sunny day, your Aptera could put back in about 4.4 kWh which is far more than what you’ll use that day. You’ll arrive home with more charge than when you left with. That’s how it works, it’s as simple as that."
- moralestapia 4y ago
  Something's off but I'm not an expert, A Tesla Model S Long Range has a 95kWh battery, following the logic you present (which makes sense, btw) that energy is equivalent to a 127hp motor working for an hour. A Tesla definitely has more power than this, and it can definitely run for more than hour, so there's something else obviously missing (is regen braking THAT good?). That aside, your 1.34kW should be enough to charge a big battery like this one in about two weeks, since that Tesla gets about 400 miles of range and Apteras are supposedly much more efficient, I think one should be fine if you expect to drive no more than 20-30 miles per day. I believe them.
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    > so there's something else obviously missing Take a look at the shape of the car. Pretty much the entire thing is designed around minimizing drag.
drewg123 4y ago
The key idea is that this car is very efficient, due to its incredibly low Cd of 0.15, and lightweight construction. That enables stuff that other EVs can't do. Like 1,000 mile range, and adding up to 40mi / day via its on-board solar charging. I pre-ordered one when I heard them interviewed on an NPR show this spring: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/09/22/electric-cars-sun-power https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/09/22/electric-cars-sun.... Rich rebuilds also did an episode around them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-KdsjVQhu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-KdsjVQhu0 I hope they get off the ground and actually start shipping cars
breput 4y ago
This can never work simply due to physics. It has a 100 kWh battery pack and no more than 1 kW maximum of solar panel capability, and probably quite a bit less due to the odd angles and less efficient panels. EEVBlog did a video[0] on this concept recently and pointed out that his entire rooftop of ideally placed solar panels, in a nearly ideal location (Australia) could never power his own EV car. Backed up by real world data and common sense calculations. Aptera themselves only claims "41 miles per day from sunlight under optimal conditions" which is the upper limit and will likely be a quarter or less in reality. Compare this car to Tesla's prototype solar trailer[1], which easily has 10x the solar panel area as well as a battery. "If those are all 300W panels (and they look a little small for that), then the optimum output would be 2.7kW. That means it would generate less than 50 miles of range a day extended or a third of that folded up. " [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIokNnjuam8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIokNnjuam8 [1] https://electrek.co/2022/07/04/tesla-unveils-solar-range-extender-trailer-spacex-starlink-internet-terminal/ https://electrek.co/2022/07/04/tesla-unveils-solar-range-ext...
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  That’ll be highly dependent on how often and how far you drive your car. Some people do a few miles once a week. They’d never run out.
  - sebular 4y ago
    I work from home and all of my driving outside of road trips probably averages out to about 40 miles a week. Considering that I paid $15k for my ICE car, something like this would be super attractive. Heck, it would be even more attractive if I was commuting ~5 miles a day, which is farther than I’ll ever be willing to commute.
  - breput 4y ago
    Sure. If that's your situation then leave the car outside 24/7 and it will probably work. Hopefully you have a secure, shade-free location. The US DOT says the average miles driven per year is 13,476 miles. You could never ever do even a fraction of that solely with on-vehicle solar.
WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago
OMG, it's a Eloo Motors that is electric!
conjecTech 4y ago
It’s funny how many times this same platform has been sold to the public. Elio motors, which is still publicly traded but nearing insolvency, promised to produce a gas version of effectively the same vehicle for 10k.
smileysteve 4y ago
I like the transparency, simplicity that Mercedes has with the rooftop solar. The roof panel charges the 12v system so the 12v dc transformer is less parasitic. It may add 25km of range in a 1000km day
oblib 4y ago
Three wheeled cars are an inherently bad design. They tip over too easily. The width between the front wheels looks like it's about as wide as what's legal, and that would help, but I don't think they've solved that problem. Those front fenders are so low they're going to get ripped up on curbs and concrete wheelstops in parking lots. If someone crashes head on into that car it would really be ugly. If you're old enough you might remember "the Dale car"[1] you'd know this is really not much different in design or the hype promoting it. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Car_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Car_Co...
- markdown 4y ago
  > Three wheeled cars are an inherently bad design. They tip over too easily. Mr. Bean taught me this a very long time ago.
- rasz 4y ago
  "The Tale of the Dale (Revisited): RCR Stories" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms9oQSPVEUE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms9oQSPVEUE 50 minute podcast
rasz 4y ago
>A year and a half ago, San Diego-based Aptera Motors started taking orders for the Aptera no, they did it in 2009. Its one of the longer running car scams out there, maybe only beat by the Moller flying car
- bagels 4y ago
  Company went bankrupt. Then it started up again after a decade. It's not exactly 15 years of nothing.
  - throwawaymaths 4y ago
    Company got taken over by VC, fired CEO, tried to move production to china, then went bankrupt. CEO came back, I imagine had to rebuy IP and trademarks, and start over again.
turtlebits 4y ago
Advertising solar is just a gimmick to pick up news. I'll believe it when I see it. The battery is the most expensive part of an EV, I'm highly skeptical they can price it so low when the other manufacturers are using 60kwh packs. Also, a heavy pack is bad for efficiency.
DaniFong 4y ago
wow, this thing is back, and they're not forcing it to be a hybrid this time
bagels 4y ago
Article says they announced a factory. There's a pretty long lead time between announcing a factory and being able to "hit production" let alone actually deliver cars.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
I'm positive on this general concept but dubious about this. What about golf carts that senior communities use to get around Florida retirement villages? Those with solar PV roofs and inductive charging pads seem like they'd be viable right now, anyone building them? A quick Google suggests some scientist have suggested that basically all golf carts should have solar roofs, and some prepper communities are also building them. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/07/16/techno-economic-analysis-of-pv-powered-golf-carts/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/07/16/techno-economic-analy...

40 points by cheinyeanlim 4y ago

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e65d6b2e-4f27-43dc-b4b7-be436559a60d https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e65d6b2e-4f27-43dc-b4b7-be43655...

metadat 4y ago

Maybe Larry Ellison and Mark Zuckerberg can go halfsies on one for their estate in Hawaii.

cptskippy 4y ago
Larry's still paying off that environmental remediation bill.

spywaregorilla 4y ago

> The car also boasts a “safety cell seven times stronger than steel,” for those worried that its unique design may not hold up well in an accident Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? > there’s also an option to put extra panels on the hood and hatch to add range Sounds dubious. Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? Website also states that me, living in boston, driving 40 miles a day would only need to charge 6 times a year? There's just no way that's accurate. Deeply skeptical of this one. Though I wouldn't hate a 20k electric triwheel car that didn't try to force the solar gimmick.

IXxXI 4y ago
> Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? If its the same design as the original failed aptera the shell is carbon fiber. There is a big question as to who is funding them as the original aptera motors had the same design & went bankrupt in 2011.
iancmceachern 4y ago
Yeah, that's nonsense.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Because of the downvotes I will explain my statement. The car has "a safety cell 7 times stronger than steel". That makes no sense. The strength of a physical object is a combination of the strength of its material(s), the geometry it's made into, and the joining method used to connect the parts. An object is not stronger than steel, a material is. Saying an object is stronger than steel means nothing.
pengaru 4y ago
> Sounds dubious. Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not primarily about charging while driving, it's increasing the range added from charge time while parked under the sun. Think parked all day while at work. It will increase the range of your commute to/from work, assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Shared404 4y ago
  > assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday. That seems like a very bad assumption to me.
  - qqqwerty 4y ago
    It seems like a perfectly reasonable assumption. The vast majority of parking spaces in existence are uncovered. And in cases where covered parking exists, there are usually uncovered options (for example in most parking garages that have a top uncovered floor, that floor tends to be the least occupied).
    - Shared404 4y ago
      I was more referring to weather. I love the idea of this vehicle, and if it performs as advertised I could see myself using it. However - I wouldn't want to bank on it charging during work to extend it's range every single workday. Overcast and rainy days happen almost everywhere, at least some times. Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them.
      - pengaru 4y ago
        > Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them. They diminish output in proportion to the amount of light. In a charging situation where you require at least a certain voltage to push anything into the batteries, I presume it will just stop charging well before the panels are 100% dark.
jonas21 4y ago
> Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not just over the course of a drive. It's charging while your car is parked out in the sun all day long. > Website also states that me, living in boston, driving 40 miles a day would only need to charge 6 times a year? There's just no way that's accurate. Back of the envelope, that seems reasonable enough: 700 W * 12 hours/day * 2/pi (to account for sun angle over the course of the day) = ~5.4kWh/day. Cut that in half to account for lousy Boston weather, and you get 2.7 kWh/day. If they can get 10 mi/kWh (a Tesla gets ~4 mi/kWh), then that's 27 miles/day, which leaves you 13 miles/day short. Their battery provides 1000 miles of range, so you'd need to charge every 76 days, or about 5 times per year.
- bragr 4y ago
  That still seems optimistic to me. These are non articulated panels, so I'd expect to see decent charging rates around local solar noon, but steep drop offs before and after, not to mention that any part of the panel being in shade will totally kill the efficiency.
- breput 4y ago
  There is no way that rooftop area is even as large as a standard solar panel (say 200 ft²). Even the most efficient panel is no more than 350W, so you're cutting your "700 W" more than in half right off the bat. Discounting less efficient cells, road dirt, and non-perpendicular angles and we'll be generous and say 300 W. 12 hours/day is the maximum possible solar duration so you really need to cut that in half to account for a full year on Earth. So we're down to 1 kWh/day and realistically much less if you happen to park under a tree or a bird poops on your roof. That will hopefully get you to a charging station but not much further.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    There's several square meters on there, and they could be using high efficiency panels. 700W is perfectly reasonable. I have a 200W panel acting as shade over a tricycle which is much smaller and can easily charge a 1kWh battery in a day..
wisty 4y ago
These 3-wheeled "legally a motorbike" car things are always an unpopular niche. Fantastic efficiency and a low price, but most people would rather shell out for a full-sized car. They're legally motorbikes, so they are often not as safe as cars. This one boasts "eggshell" composites for crash safety, but often the lack of mass makes it hard to make these as safe as a heavier vehicle. 2 seats. It seems to have a lot of storage (25 cubic feet) but I bet it handles very badly if it's weighed down. I can't find any mention of performance. I bet it's relying a lot on the high low-end torque of electric motors, and aerodynamic design at high speeds, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still handles quite slowly. I found a claim somewhere that it's over 99mph, which isn't exactly stunning. There's already plenty of 3-wheeled EVs, the SARIT, ElectraMeccanica Solo, Spirtus EV as well as this one - https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheeled-vehicles/ https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheele... These things never do that well. It's not because they're a terrible idea, they just have a lot of compromises. Of course, if conventional cars are too expensive (either the high upfront cost of an EV, or the high running costs of a gas guzzler) then it does make them a little more attractive. Every time gas goes up, you see a bunch of people driving motorbikes or scooters to work to save money. Something that's legally a scooter but has a nice canopy could make a bit more sense, but it rarely seems to catch on.
- incompatible 4y ago
  Where I live, having a license to drive a car doesn't give you a license to ride a motorcycle. You have to go through whole stages of training/certification.
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    That's the same where I live, but there are plenty of motorcycle learn-to-ride classes that cost maybe $200 and provide the motorcycle. On the last day of the course, a person from the state comes by, supervises the testing, and (if you pass) signs the paperwork to get your license. It's about as easy as it can be; if you want this Aptera thing a motorcycle license is not a barrier. What concerns me more is that they have their factory in Carlsbad, CA. I don't think there are too many worse places to put a factory if you have a price point to meet, and I doubt that there is any space to expand.
14 4y ago
My electrician friend just told me the other day that the sun very conveniently produces a 1000w/square meter at high noon. Solar panels have an efficiency of around 20% give or take. That is in direct sunlight at high noon. So at peak time of day you can produce about 200w/square meter of solar panel. That’s not a whole lot of energy so adding extra panel to the hood won’t yield a lot of energy but I guess every bit helps.
MrRiddle 4y ago
> Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? Well, no. You have those zones + extremely strong cell. [0] https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY
waldothedog 4y ago
Re: crumple zones. I believe Smart cars feature a similar concept, most of the car is sacrificed on impact—the whole vehicle is a crumple zone—except the the two seats embedded in a tiny roll cage

bpodgursky 4y ago

I want this to succeed. I do! But when you need an artist's rendering to get a picture of your factory... there's probably some 0 to 1 work to be done first.

lastofthemojito 4y ago

From https://aptera.us/faq/ https://aptera.us/faq/: >Is Aptera a car? >No, Aptera is not a car. We call it a Solar Electric Vehicle, because it’s powered by the sun and also charged with batteries when plugged in. Technically speaking, Aptera can be classified as a motorcycle or auto-cycle. A helmet is not required because Aptera is enclosed, and the vast majority of states only require that you have a regular driver’s license to operate Aptera.

crooked-v 4y ago
They have to call it "not a car" for legal reasons (federal standards legally classify anything with less than four wheels as a motorcycle, regardless of its other qualities), but to anyone with eyes it's obviously a (weirdly-shaped) hatchback coupe.
antisthenes 4y ago
Aptera is vaporware. It's been a concept since at least 2006 in many different incarnations. I'm not sure if they've ever come closer to production than 1-2 prototypes driving around in a 1-minute promo video. Not sure they ever will, considering the incumbent competition (actual, real EVs on the road today)
- namlem 4y ago
  They have a factory and the first deliveries are planned for later this year.

JetAlone 4y ago

I'm surprised, if the website isn't overselling this could actually be pretty good for the commuting I already do by train (zone 2, daily average of 20 miles). It's less ideal for where I'd rather live (zone 4, probably a higher daily average, with much less train access making a vehicle a better purchase) but still doesn't seem too bad at all. My gut feeling is "it's too good to be true". I wouldn't pre-order, but I will tentatively await to see early results. Also I part of me wants to pronounce it "a ptera" as in "a pterodactyl" rather than "ap-terra".

drewg123 4y ago
I pre-ordered this spring. The pre-order payment due is just $100. I've wasted more than that on plenty of dumber things in my life. If they can pull this off, it will be money well spent and I'll be thrilled to have one of the first cars they make.
- JetAlone 4y ago
  Thanks for taking on the early-adopter risk.

3nwf248 4y ago

A 1 square meter solar panel generates 200W (when aimed perfectly at the sun). Since the car's top is a flat surface (as opposed to tilted towards the sun), that's cos(30) * 200W, or 173W. A typical compact car (Honda Civic) has a surface area of about 8 square meters if it were a perfect rectangle. That's 8 * 173 = 1.384 kW, or 1.86 horsepower under wildly optimistic circumstances. I call bullshit.

keithnz 4y ago
I'm pretty skeptical, and details are thin, but this is what they say in their FAQ... "Even though the longest range Aptera can drive for about 1,000 miles between charge, the reality is that most of our driving is 30 miles or less. For Aptera, 30 miles consumes about 3 kWh of electricity. Now, let’s say your commute is 15 miles each way, let’s assume it’s dark when you’re driving to and from work. While parked at the office on a sunny day, your Aptera could put back in about 4.4 kWh which is far more than what you’ll use that day. You’ll arrive home with more charge than when you left with. That’s how it works, it’s as simple as that."
moralestapia 4y ago
Something's off but I'm not an expert, A Tesla Model S Long Range has a 95kWh battery, following the logic you present (which makes sense, btw) that energy is equivalent to a 127hp motor working for an hour. A Tesla definitely has more power than this, and it can definitely run for more than hour, so there's something else obviously missing (is regen braking THAT good?). That aside, your 1.34kW should be enough to charge a big battery like this one in about two weeks, since that Tesla gets about 400 miles of range and Apteras are supposedly much more efficient, I think one should be fine if you expect to drive no more than 20-30 miles per day. I believe them.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  > so there's something else obviously missing Take a look at the shape of the car. Pretty much the entire thing is designed around minimizing drag.

drewg123 4y ago

The key idea is that this car is very efficient, due to its incredibly low Cd of 0.15, and lightweight construction. That enables stuff that other EVs can't do. Like 1,000 mile range, and adding up to 40mi / day via its on-board solar charging. I pre-ordered one when I heard them interviewed on an NPR show this spring: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/09/22/electric-cars-sun-power https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/09/22/electric-cars-sun.... Rich rebuilds also did an episode around them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-KdsjVQhu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-KdsjVQhu0 I hope they get off the ground and actually start shipping cars

breput 4y ago

This can never work simply due to physics. It has a 100 kWh battery pack and no more than 1 kW maximum of solar panel capability, and probably quite a bit less due to the odd angles and less efficient panels. EEVBlog did a video[0] on this concept recently and pointed out that his entire rooftop of ideally placed solar panels, in a nearly ideal location (Australia) could never power his own EV car. Backed up by real world data and common sense calculations. Aptera themselves only claims "41 miles per day from sunlight under optimal conditions" which is the upper limit and will likely be a quarter or less in reality. Compare this car to Tesla's prototype solar trailer[1], which easily has 10x the solar panel area as well as a battery. "If those are all 300W panels (and they look a little small for that), then the optimum output would be 2.7kW. That means it would generate less than 50 miles of range a day extended or a third of that folded up. " [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIokNnjuam8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIokNnjuam8 [1] https://electrek.co/2022/07/04/tesla-unveils-solar-range-extender-trailer-spacex-starlink-internet-terminal/ https://electrek.co/2022/07/04/tesla-unveils-solar-range-ext...

ceejayoz 4y ago
That’ll be highly dependent on how often and how far you drive your car. Some people do a few miles once a week. They’d never run out.
- sebular 4y ago
  I work from home and all of my driving outside of road trips probably averages out to about 40 miles a week. Considering that I paid $15k for my ICE car, something like this would be super attractive. Heck, it would be even more attractive if I was commuting ~5 miles a day, which is farther than I’ll ever be willing to commute.
- breput 4y ago
  Sure. If that's your situation then leave the car outside 24/7 and it will probably work. Hopefully you have a secure, shade-free location. The US DOT says the average miles driven per year is 13,476 miles. You could never ever do even a fraction of that solely with on-vehicle solar.

WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago

OMG, it's a Eloo Motors that is electric!

conjecTech 4y ago

It’s funny how many times this same platform has been sold to the public. Elio motors, which is still publicly traded but nearing insolvency, promised to produce a gas version of effectively the same vehicle for 10k.

smileysteve 4y ago

I like the transparency, simplicity that Mercedes has with the rooftop solar. The roof panel charges the 12v system so the 12v dc transformer is less parasitic. It may add 25km of range in a 1000km day

oblib 4y ago

Three wheeled cars are an inherently bad design. They tip over too easily. The width between the front wheels looks like it's about as wide as what's legal, and that would help, but I don't think they've solved that problem. Those front fenders are so low they're going to get ripped up on curbs and concrete wheelstops in parking lots. If someone crashes head on into that car it would really be ugly. If you're old enough you might remember "the Dale car"[1] you'd know this is really not much different in design or the hype promoting it. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Car_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Century_Motor_Car_Co...

markdown 4y ago
> Three wheeled cars are an inherently bad design. They tip over too easily. Mr. Bean taught me this a very long time ago.
rasz 4y ago
"The Tale of the Dale (Revisited): RCR Stories" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms9oQSPVEUE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms9oQSPVEUE 50 minute podcast

rasz 4y ago

>A year and a half ago, San Diego-based Aptera Motors started taking orders for the Aptera no, they did it in 2009. Its one of the longer running car scams out there, maybe only beat by the Moller flying car

bagels 4y ago
Company went bankrupt. Then it started up again after a decade. It's not exactly 15 years of nothing.
- throwawaymaths 4y ago
  Company got taken over by VC, fired CEO, tried to move production to china, then went bankrupt. CEO came back, I imagine had to rebuy IP and trademarks, and start over again.

turtlebits 4y ago

Advertising solar is just a gimmick to pick up news. I'll believe it when I see it. The battery is the most expensive part of an EV, I'm highly skeptical they can price it so low when the other manufacturers are using 60kwh packs. Also, a heavy pack is bad for efficiency.

DaniFong 4y ago

wow, this thing is back, and they're not forcing it to be a hybrid this time

bagels 4y ago

Article says they announced a factory. There's a pretty long lead time between announcing a factory and being able to "hit production" let alone actually deliver cars.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

I'm positive on this general concept but dubious about this. What about golf carts that senior communities use to get around Florida retirement villages? Those with solar PV roofs and inductive charging pads seem like they'd be viable right now, anyone building them? A quick Google suggests some scientist have suggested that basically all golf carts should have solar roofs, and some prepper communities are also building them. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/07/16/techno-economic-analysis-of-pv-powered-golf-carts/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/07/16/techno-economic-analy...