8 ms·
If I read it correctly it's more like a 1.8 bn hole. They are counting 600m of their own token, which already had only 170m or whatever of market cap, which pr
by bluelightning2k 4y ago
If I read it correctly it's more like a 1.8 bn hole.
They are counting 600m of their own token, which already had only 170m or whatever of market cap, which presumably now is absolutely worthless.
I don't mean worthless in a conceptual sense like all crypto, but this specific brand of made up money is based on the trust of a bankrupt lender. Nobody is buying that and counting it as 600m of asset is absurd.
It's like writing yourself a bunch of IOUs and claiming it gives you wealth.
- voodootrucker 4y agoSo exactly like the federal reserve or the social security administration buying US bonds then?
- mushufasa 4y agono, in fact it's not exactly like that.
- bardworx 4y agoNothing like that.
- moralestapia 4y agoUS Bonds are not worthless, come on.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoNeither are the assets under discussion. Both are subjective.
- everfree 4y agoIt doesn't work quite as well if you're not a sovereign government.
- menzoic 4y agoIt only works until it fails. There's no real difference in the reality of what it is. The only difference is operational.
- SilasX 4y agoFor reasons I don’t claim to understand, their token is still trading at about a third of where it was three months ago: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/celsius/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/celsius/
- amluto 4y agoThis happened with Hertz during bankruptcy. And apparently it wasn’t entirely nuts: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevindowd/2021/11/07/how-hertz-went-from-bankrupt-to-buying-100000-teslas/?sh=94f1ae5d8bb5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevindowd/2021/11/07/how-hertz-...
- Aperocky 4y agoHertz had actual vehicles.
- jsemrau 4y agoAnd a lot of management disfunction.
- everfree 4y agoIt's not like Celsius has a zero balance sheet. They still have substantial liquid assets even if you discount the suspect ones. They just have a lot more more liabilities, thus the bankruptcy.
- loeg 4y agoAre the tokens a senior claim on any of their assets, though?
- everfree 4y agoNo. The CEL tokens are not securities, and do not represent any debt or equity. CEL holders are not entitled to any claim on Celsius' assets. The CEL token's sole purpose was as a tool to offer users promotional rates (and maybe for a bit of insider pump-and-dumping).
- ufo 4y agoDon't forget about the $720M in "Mining Assets". I wouldn't be surprised if the true value were much lower than this, now that crypto prices have crashed.
- jsemrau 4y agoThis could also include GPUs, Asics, and other mining equipment which given the upcoming ETH merge should be amortized differently.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoPeople are still mining LTC/BTC/DOGE et al, aren't they?
- ok_dad 4y agoThere was an analysis recently that ETH accounts for something like 97 percent of the mining market’s value.
- TrainedMonkey 4y agoThat does not sound right, bitcoin fraction alone should be more than 3%. Maybe GPU mining market value as bitcoin is dominated by ASICs.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- remram 4y agoIf only 3% of hardware owned by miners and dedicated to mining is put towards Bitcoin, doesn't that make it super-likely that a 50% attack will happen any day? Bitcoin is still "mainstream" (within crypto) and easy to trade so a double-spend could be very lucrative? The whole security of proof-of-work depends on "you can't beat the network", but when such a small fraction of available hardware is left in that particular network, what security does it have?
- titzer 4y ago> It's like writing yourself a bunch of IOUs and claiming it gives you wealth. I think you just described monetary policy.
- jakelazaroff 4y ago“Monetary policy” is backed up by the military. What are Celsius’ tokens backed up by?
- menzoic 4y agoMonetary policy is based on fiat money which is backed by faith. The military doesn't back the money supply. No military can prevent hyperinflation.
- cyphar 4y agoLiterally all forms of money ever invented are based on faith. Even the importance of debt (which existed before money) is based on faith. You can't eat gold, you can't grow food with the wasted energy underlying Bitcoin. You need faith that in the long term people will give you something you want in exchange for your monetary tokens, and that the prices of goods will not grow or shrink too quickly so as to make those transactions untenable. Sovereign nations have several levers to ensure their national currency continues to fulfil these requirements so as to encourage faith in their currency. Magic internet money does not.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago> “Monetary policy” is backed up by the military. I love this. How poignant of an image: you're holding your dollars, "the military" is standing in front of you...and the rest of the world is just walking in the other direction.
- eropple 4y agoIf you can require people to pay taxes in your money, you made money. They can't. They didn't.
- TheAlchemist 4y agoI read it as a 5.5 bn hole ! Who in his right mind puts 'Other' with a 270 millions $ figure next to it ? It reads like Tether attestations. It's pretty amazing (or rather depressing) that Mashinsky is still not in jail. Hopefully, this will open the eyes of some crypto naive fans.
- once_inc 4y ago> I don't mean worthless in a conceptual sense like all crypto As a Bitcoin Maximalist, I agree with your statement almost wholeheartedly. These platforms offer nothing valuable except for the life lesson at the end not to gamble away your life savings in shady investment vehicles that offer unsustainable yields without a transparent earnings model.
- sushid 4y agoIt's crazy to think this is all because of Terra. Terra crashed, tanking the entire crypto sector -> 3AC defaults as they lost $$$$ on Luna -> Celsius, who already had a dubious "diversification" strategy, emerges as a big bagholder.
- tim333 4y agoA house of cards collapses with one card first.
- tim333 4y agoI'm short CEL token and it's taking it's time to collapse but I agree with you there's not much value there. (You can short on FTX futures in case anyone is inspired - not investment advice).
- RileyJames 4y agoI’d have thought CEL would have gone to zero, but it still seems to be hover around ~0.75. Tho there’s only 2m in volume. So it’s unrealistic that Celsius would be able to offload 600m worth. But why would anyone be buying it now? The hope that a) Celsius comes out of bankruptcy and b) they continue to honour their existing CEL token, seems a bit far fetched.