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Sure, but, frankly? That is a form of psychopathy. Please don't take that offensively. I'm not throwing the word around. I don't mean "evil". I don't think it'

Sure, but, frankly? That is a form of psychopathy. Please don't take that offensively. I'm not throwing the word around. I don't mean "evil". I don't think it's "evil", I'm even jealous. Not just of money. Of the rationality. The rest of us don't do this stuff because we'd feel horribly bad for doing it, to the point benefits would outweigh the costs. I'd hazard a guess that most people would also say it was fine given a sufficient trolley problem set up "is it okay to take 3 jobs and not do the work I can't be held accountable towards given...I have a trust fund...versus...my kids wont have food"

throwawaysleep 4y ago
Let me give you a new perspective. You get to see your dying father for just one week as that is all the vacation time you have left and you cannot just walk away from your job due to house/kids/etc. Happened to a friend. Father had 6 months to live. He got 1 week with him in that time. Pile of cash lets you walk away. How horrible will that make you feel to not get to spend that time with him? My employer, who I will end up leaving in a year anyway (if they do not lay me off as every company I have been with has had layoffs) as the best way to get a raise is to leave, is way, way, way, way down on the list of people it hurts to disappoint.
- MacsHeadroom 4y ago
  Since you mentioned taking time off, how does that work for you with three jobs? I would do the same as you if oprimozimg for income. But I tend to optimize for free time rather than income. So I take 4-5 months of PTO a year at one "full time" job which takes ~15 hours/week. (TC > $400k)
  - throwawaysleep 4y ago
    Happily trade my situation for yours. Very nice setup. I have generous vacation at all jobs and at a prior job, I just quit to go on vacation after lining up another job to start in a few weeks, so booking the same time off everywhere is easy. I am an unimportant rank and file developer.
- refulgentis 4y ago
  I feel this very very very much, I wish we could talk in person, I am tortured every day by this exact problem. I am very jealous of people who are "that rational" "are able to adopt that perspective". To my point, people don't do this even though everyone knows it, and its obvious, because....:(
  - buscoquadnary 4y ago
    Well one thing you can always take solace in is the knowledge you are honest. No amount of money can purchase integrity, and at the end of the day what you think of yourself is one of the most important things .
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    FYI, it's not a rationality question. This involves ethical questions you can rationally argue about.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Companies don't have moral responsibilities, they have legal ones (and the least they can lobby for.) The only people burdened with moral responsibilities in the employer-employee relationship seem to be the employees.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        Living up to your side of a contract is a general principle, and one we expect companies to also live up to. Not working 3 full time jobs is a legal obligation.
    - refulgentis 4y ago
      Yeah, addressed upthread. Acting like there's some abstract dialogue to have here hides the ball. This isn't a common viewpoint, there's a reason why, and it's not because people arent aware
      - 4y ago
- dannyphantom 4y ago
  Fully agree with your ideas here; I suspect you and I to be around the same post college age. Is it a lack of morality about "screwing over employers"? No. It's not being disillusioned to the idea that being loyal reaps rewards. If you don't go out of your way to self advocate, you'll end up left far, far behind.
ryandrake 4y ago
OP's getting dunked on but he has a point: There are no consequences anymore for wrongdoing, unless it's one of a few very specific (often mortally violent) wrongdoings. So, the wrongdoers get a major advantage with no risk. To be honest, sometimes I feel like a sucker for not taking advantage. The whole spectrum from "criminal" to "mere asshole" goes unpunished. I could walk into a store in San Francisco today, right now, and walk out with an armful of goods, and nobody will lift a finger to stop me, including the police who will ignore it. You can start a business and just defraud people all day, and you're probably not going to face consequences. People are out there breaking into cars, running red lights, berating service employees, shitting on the sidewalks, harassing and doxxing people they disagree with, belligerence, bigotry, bullying and so on. Nobody does anything about it. The police can't be bothered, other public officials who could help just keep their heads down, bystanders look the other way and have no incentive to get involved. You don't even need a good reason--just go out and do what you want, and nobody is going to stop you. It's like society hardly even functions anymore.
- rjbwork 4y ago
  >It's like society hardly even functions anymore. Because it doesn't. We aren't meant to live like we live. We're hyper-individualized, alienated, and atomized by our relations to the means of production. We're all mercenary wage slaves just trying to get enough scratch to escape the rat race for a few years before we kick the bucket. Nearly all of those that don't really have this concern (aka the already-set-for-life crowd) seem to be preternaturally greedy and devoid of empathy. The deterioration of society under these conditions isn't exactly surprising. Hoping to retire to either Europe or the middle of fucking nowhere within a decade.
  - birdyrooster 4y ago
    Iceland is the way
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  You assume society functioned a lot better historically. I don't think it did. We forget that a few as 60 years ago, a person could rape a woman and she might be pressured to marry him to save face. Unless the accused rapist were black and then you would go find a tree to hang him and a couple friends from, whether or not he was guilty. Scams are not new. Get rich schemes like crypto have been around forever. Same with scam medical treatments, fraudulent investments, abuses of power, skimming inventory, etc. Yes, we are worse on shoplifting now than we previously were, but the rest all happened before, at scale. People have very rosy views of the past and their fellow humans. It is all a lie. It has long been the human way to ignore wrongdoing as it is too much work to fight over or pretend it does not exist.

throwawaysleep 4y ago

Let me give you a new perspective. You get to see your dying father for just one week as that is all the vacation time you have left and you cannot just walk away from your job due to house/kids/etc. Happened to a friend. Father had 6 months to live. He got 1 week with him in that time. Pile of cash lets you walk away. How horrible will that make you feel to not get to spend that time with him? My employer, who I will end up leaving in a year anyway (if they do not lay me off as every company I have been with has had layoffs) as the best way to get a raise is to leave, is way, way, way, way down on the list of people it hurts to disappoint.

MacsHeadroom 4y ago
Since you mentioned taking time off, how does that work for you with three jobs? I would do the same as you if oprimozimg for income. But I tend to optimize for free time rather than income. So I take 4-5 months of PTO a year at one "full time" job which takes ~15 hours/week. (TC > $400k)
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Happily trade my situation for yours. Very nice setup. I have generous vacation at all jobs and at a prior job, I just quit to go on vacation after lining up another job to start in a few weeks, so booking the same time off everywhere is easy. I am an unimportant rank and file developer.
refulgentis 4y ago
I feel this very very very much, I wish we could talk in person, I am tortured every day by this exact problem. I am very jealous of people who are "that rational" "are able to adopt that perspective". To my point, people don't do this even though everyone knows it, and its obvious, because....:(
- buscoquadnary 4y ago
  Well one thing you can always take solace in is the knowledge you are honest. No amount of money can purchase integrity, and at the end of the day what you think of yourself is one of the most important things .
- HWR_14 4y ago
  FYI, it's not a rationality question. This involves ethical questions you can rationally argue about.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Companies don't have moral responsibilities, they have legal ones (and the least they can lobby for.) The only people burdened with moral responsibilities in the employer-employee relationship seem to be the employees.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      Living up to your side of a contract is a general principle, and one we expect companies to also live up to. Not working 3 full time jobs is a legal obligation.
  - refulgentis 4y ago
    Yeah, addressed upthread. Acting like there's some abstract dialogue to have here hides the ball. This isn't a common viewpoint, there's a reason why, and it's not because people arent aware
    - 4y ago
dannyphantom 4y ago
Fully agree with your ideas here; I suspect you and I to be around the same post college age. Is it a lack of morality about "screwing over employers"? No. It's not being disillusioned to the idea that being loyal reaps rewards. If you don't go out of your way to self advocate, you'll end up left far, far behind.

ryandrake 4y ago

OP's getting dunked on but he has a point: There are no consequences anymore for wrongdoing, unless it's one of a few very specific (often mortally violent) wrongdoings. So, the wrongdoers get a major advantage with no risk. To be honest, sometimes I feel like a sucker for not taking advantage. The whole spectrum from "criminal" to "mere asshole" goes unpunished. I could walk into a store in San Francisco today, right now, and walk out with an armful of goods, and nobody will lift a finger to stop me, including the police who will ignore it. You can start a business and just defraud people all day, and you're probably not going to face consequences. People are out there breaking into cars, running red lights, berating service employees, shitting on the sidewalks, harassing and doxxing people they disagree with, belligerence, bigotry, bullying and so on. Nobody does anything about it. The police can't be bothered, other public officials who could help just keep their heads down, bystanders look the other way and have no incentive to get involved. You don't even need a good reason--just go out and do what you want, and nobody is going to stop you. It's like society hardly even functions anymore.

rjbwork 4y ago
>It's like society hardly even functions anymore. Because it doesn't. We aren't meant to live like we live. We're hyper-individualized, alienated, and atomized by our relations to the means of production. We're all mercenary wage slaves just trying to get enough scratch to escape the rat race for a few years before we kick the bucket. Nearly all of those that don't really have this concern (aka the already-set-for-life crowd) seem to be preternaturally greedy and devoid of empathy. The deterioration of society under these conditions isn't exactly surprising. Hoping to retire to either Europe or the middle of fucking nowhere within a decade.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  Iceland is the way
throwawaysleep 4y ago
You assume society functioned a lot better historically. I don't think it did. We forget that a few as 60 years ago, a person could rape a woman and she might be pressured to marry him to save face. Unless the accused rapist were black and then you would go find a tree to hang him and a couple friends from, whether or not he was guilty. Scams are not new. Get rich schemes like crypto have been around forever. Same with scam medical treatments, fraudulent investments, abuses of power, skimming inventory, etc. Yes, we are worse on shoplifting now than we previously were, but the rest all happened before, at scale. People have very rosy views of the past and their fellow humans. It is all a lie. It has long been the human way to ignore wrongdoing as it is too much work to fight over or pretend it does not exist.