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Ecobee has eco+ which has "Community Energy Savings" [0]. It was just way too intrusive. It seemed to be a reactive system vs proactive. Technology Connections

Ecobee has eco+ which has "Community Energy Savings" [0]. It was just way too intrusive. It seemed to be a reactive system vs proactive. Technology Connections goes into this more [1], but I believe they should be providing a system that proactively cools when there is less demand _prior_ to an expected increase in demand. Effectively using your house as a "battery". When I had it enabled, I was _always_ too hot (in the summer) during peak hours. Sorry, not sorry: I'm not willing to sacrifice my comfort for the ~$10/mo incentive. ___ [0] https://www.ecobee.com/en-us/eco-plus/community-energy-savings/ https://www.ecobee.com/en-us/eco-plus/community-energy-savin... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f9GpMWdvWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f9GpMWdvWI

copperx 4y ago
> but I believe they should be providing a system that proactively cools when there is less demand _prior_ to an expected increase in demand. Effectively using your house as a "battery". Isn't this exactly what they do? That what the Nest does when there's going to be a spike; it cools the house.
- evanreichard 4y ago
  > Isn't this exactly what they do? That what the Nest does when there's going to be a spike; it cools the house. I don't have any experience with Nest, but the Ecobee seemed to just increase the cool set temp when there was demand. I didn't experience any proactive cooling. Interestingly, in the Ecobee Community Energy Savings FAQ I linked above it says: > [...] your thermostat may precool your home prior to the event to make sure you’re comfortable. But I never experienced this. I wonder if its energy provider dependent.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  The nest does this, but it's not very effective. We're getting the 'rush hour' stuff right now (it's 100-105 peak right now) and the Nest does the following: * Sets the thermostat 2 degrees cooler (74) ~1 hr prior to the rush hour time (3:30-5:30) * Sets the thermostat to 4 degrees warmer between rush hour timing. Problem is, with the current heat my house cannot be cooled down to 74 1 hour prior, and even still... it floats up to 80 degrees by ~4:30-5PM anyways and the AC kicks back on. Then it takes until ~10PM or so to get BACK to the 76 set temperature. This is a relatively modern house (built in 2010s), so it has modern insulation, sealing, etc. It's just ACs aren't really sized for being able to wildly swing temperatures and maintain temp. When it's 100+ degrees outside, they're sized so they run basically constantly when the sun is out, so slipping temperature means you're playing catch up for the rest of the night.
  - copperx 4y ago
    It sounds like your AC might be of the wrong tonnage for your home. The Nest assumes your AC unit is sized correctly, although this is something the Nest should detect and plan accordingly.
ceejayoz 4y ago
Nest's does this; it cools below your set temperature in advance of the "Rush Hour" for a few hours. https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9244031 https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9244031
- hwbehrens 4y ago
  In my experience, it was not nearly sufficient. If your AC is appropriately sized (or undersized) for your house, you can't just drop several degrees in 2 hours during the hottest part of the day. Going from 78 to 72 to 84 in set temp looked more like 78 to 77 to 83 in practice. Granted this was in AZ in an older house, so extremely high outdoor temps combined with marginal insulation didn't help. If they pre-cooled the night before it might be a different story.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    I think a poorly insulated old house in Arizona is probably one of the worst-case scenarios here. Maybe there should be a configurable or learning-based pre-cool length, though.
- supportengineer 4y ago
  This feature actually makes my house uncomfortably cold.
MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
Like heating/cooling your house more in advance of demand? It would be neat if they could enable/disable demand on a rolling basis where AC runs for one subpopulation for part of an hour then for another subpopulation the next part.
- celticninja 4y ago
  or you know, dont live in the desert e.g Phoenix Arizona, or if you do decide to live in the desert then realise that's your choice and dont add to pollution and climate change by trying to cool down a desert with AC.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    Do you also recommend that people don’t live anywhere it snows? I mean, heating up in winter uses even more energy than cooling down in summer.
    - seiferteric 4y ago
      It's funny that I have seen several anti A/C articles and several pro Heat Pump articles in recent times, do you think they know these are the same things in reverse? At least A/C is often used in sunny locales were solar can be used effectively.
      - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
        Same thing in reverse but where I live, in the summer I'm cooling from 30C down to 20C and in winter I'm going from -18 to 18.
      - wiredfool 4y ago
        AC is more than 100% efficient in heating the environment. This is unfortunate, but thermodynamics will win in the long run. Heat pumps are more than 100% efficient at heating the house, which is what we want, and one of the places where we are on the same side as thermodynamics.
bfgoodrich 4y ago
Navarr 4y ago
Google is currently doing a proactive system called "Nest Renew"[1]. This system is more focused on using clean energy vs. dirty energy - at least for me (where there is no rate difference based on time) [1]: https://nestrenew.google.com/ https://nestrenew.google.com/
jandrese 4y ago
Nest has an energy saving feature that feels like it is trying to boil the frog. We normally keep the thermostat at 78F (~25.5C), but over the course of a couple of weeks it ticked it up to 79F, then 80, then 81, and now 82F (~28C). I had to go in and manually adjust the schedule to get it back to something reasonable.
- LazyMans 4y ago
  Where do you live? I'm just curious because I can't imagine living at 78F anymore.
  - google234123 4y ago
    78-80 doesn't feel to bad in a dry climate imo
    - jandrese 4y ago
      I live in a fairly humid area, but the AC helps to drain the moisture out of the air so it's still livable. Ceiling fans on a low setting can also help you feel comfortable, especially if you don't have the sun shining on you.
    - mason55 4y ago
      Yeah we live in the foothills in Colorado at 7700 feet elevation. Typical summer day is 85 degrees and 20% humidity and we don’t have AC. It gets warm but fans are enough and I have a portable swamp cooler for when it gets really hot.
    - tasty_freeze 4y ago
      I live in Austin, TX. It has been 105-ish every day this week, but the humidity is 30% during the hot part of the day. My office has a ceiling fan which is on low most of the time. Some people will not believe this, but I have the minisplit set at 80F and when the sun sets I turn off the fan because I start to get cold. When I leave my office (which is attached to the garage) and walk the 40 feet into my house through the 98F evening air I often feel: ah, that warmth feels good. To summarize: it is one part adaptation to the heat, one part low humidity, and one part air circulation.
wil421 4y ago
It doesn’t work. People use electricity at peak hours because working people and families are on similar schedules. We all get home from work or wfh office, start cooking, and doing other things because we have time after work/school. Not to mention 5pm is usually the hottest part of the day so ACs run.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  It does work, though. Nest's program pre-cools to get you through the hottest hours without having to kick on the AC, moving some of the region's demand from the 4-6pm slot to the 2-4pm slot. I find myself going "huh, it's getting a little warm" at about 5:45pm, at which point I check and remember it's a "Rush Hour" session.
  - rblatz 4y ago
    Does precooking really work? I’d assume it would have to cool my house down below 65 to keep it below 80 all afternoon. 111+ days are brutal in certain rooms even with both ACs set to 76.
    - reaperducer 4y ago
      Does precooking really work?... 111+ days are brutal Not every solution works in every situation. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just might not work for you. (Posted from a location that was 108° last week.)
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > Does precoo[l]ing really work? Depends on the shape of the temperature graph for the day, the power of your AC system, your insulation, etc. If your on a day that doesn't get below 90 and gets above 110 during the hottest part of the day and your AC is barely rated at the minimum recommended for your square footage and you have average insulation, no, and even regular AC use is going to be marginal and your AC is probably going to frequent service. (And the things that make precooling work better also will make your AC work better and, for the most part, more energy and maintenance cost efficiently when you aren't precooling.) If you live in a place where you frequently need AC, aside from decent insulation, getting an overrated, high-efficiency unit (which seem to be correlated for residential units, probably because both drive up cost, and there is a correlation between people looking for more capacity and people concerned with efficiency) is a serious quality of life improvement.
BeetleB 4y ago
The silly thing is that I can simply adjust my thermostat to a lower temperature, so that the effective temperature is the same as without this program. As an example, if I set it to 74, then when Energy Savings kicks in, it may set it to 76, which is too warm for me. So I simply set the "standard" temperature to 72, and it will set it to 74. I use the same energy as without this program, yet I get my $25 energy savings rebate. Silly.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  That's fine, really. The utility's concern is predictability and burst capacity, not raw usage, so they know when and how many https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant to turn on, which may take a while.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    Not sure I follow. If they just want to know in advance, then they don't need to modify the temperature at all, correct?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Lowering the load helps avoid needing the more expensive short term plants from coming online. Whether you go from 76 to 78 or from 66 to 68, you’re helping avoid the burst in demand they’d get.
      - BeetleB 4y ago
        That's true, assuming I changed the temperature setting prior to the event, and I likely won't time it perfectly (nor would I want to). The real thing is: These events last for hours. If what you say is true, then wouldn't altering the thermostat for a small period (e.g. 30 minutes) suffice?
- sokoloff 4y ago
  It seems like maintaining a higher delta-T from ambient would require more energy, not the same amount. You are still shaving the peak demand with this approach, so the $25 could still be earned.
tguvot 4y ago
in reality it's hard (and probably expensive) to proactively cool house with AC during summer at hot/sunny regions. I live in a house with rather good insulation (the one mandated by code) in south bay, yet all the walls getting rather warm and even if you try to precool air with AC walls with bring temperature back quickly My solution was to install whole house fan which runs through the night when temperature drops to 16C-14C. It allows to both replace air with colder one multiple times and due to improved air-flow to cool off the walls. After I shut windows close at morning most of the houses stays within comfort zone ( < 22C) till 6-7pm even on 40C days
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  If you can feel that your walls are warm I don't think that's good enough insulation. The whole house fan solution is great though.
  - tguvot 4y ago
    i have walls insulated according to california build code. it's not really possible to add more insulation to them, unless you rip them off and do spray in insulation. insulated attic with radiant barrier and insulated floors. i just checked with IR camera, most of surfaces in the house are now 22C-24C. After a few days of 40+C walls ill go to 25-26. some walls (south side of house) even higher. There are few little spots where insulation doesn't sit properly - it will be around 28C. The biggest offender is skylight. Temperature near top of it can get to 60C. Edit. I think most people simply do not realize what temperature have internal and external walls in houses and how it interacts (or counteracts) AC. If you will go to read greenbuildings/passive houses forums, there are a bunch of discussions about thermal mass of the walls
    - reaperducer 4y ago
      it's not really possible to add more insulation to them, unless you rip them off and do spray in insulation. Actually, it's possible to inject foam insulation into walls without ripping them off. It goes in through small holes, or through utility boxes. Plenty of companies do that. I've even seen it advertised on TV in California.
moralestapia 4y ago
>Sorry, not sorry: I'm not willing to sacrifice my comfort for the ~$10/mo incentive. Hey, but at least you don't use plastic straws, right?
- saurik 4y ago
  Why would you expect someone who isn't willing to sacrifice their comfort for a $10/mo incentive to sacrifice their comfort for a $0/mo incentive? Deciding "I don't like this person's ethics" doesn't mean "this person is suddenly inconsistent": you need to check your knee-jerk responses :/.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    Well, for one thing people will often do for free things they wouldn’t do for money. Imagine choosing between “i will pay you $10 to come to my party” and “i’m having a party, will you come?”.
    - philwelch 4y ago
      Parties are supposed to be fun, so if someone offers to pay you to come to a party, that sends a signal that the party is not, in fact, going to be fun at all--otherwise, why would they pay you? On the other hand, paper straws are a shitty product that are unsuitable for use, but if I was offered a significant discount on beverages that were served with them...well, I wouldn't take it, but I could imagine someone who was desperately broke considering taking it.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        See, what you said is exactly the problem i have with mainstream climate solutions. The choice shouldn’t be paper straws vs plastic straws. The choice should be no straws vs straws. Similarly, the question shouldn’t be “can I run a/c slightly off peak” rather it should be “how can I run less a/c”. This applies all over the place. Electric cars have lifetime emissions that are lower, but in the same ballpark as ICE cars - if everyone switches to electric and changes nothing else, we still have climate change.
r3trohack3r 4y ago
Ecobee integrates with SRP in my area and does exactly what you describe. They know my billing plan (Time of Use - Demand) and, from my understanding, will coordinate with SRP ahead of a conservation event to pre-cool my house by up to 2 degrees before raising it by up to 4 degrees when attempting to “flatten the demand curve” of the grid.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
Our ecobee (Phoenix, so HOT) does the precooling and is buggily aware of the expensive time window for electrical rates. Arizona Power just shrunk the expensive time window, not sure how that made sense, but the ecobee seems to not know, nor is there any way i could find to inform ecobee of the new shorter expensive time window. I've had two Nests before, and two Ecobees, and they both were fine, in general, but for the next house not sure which I'd prefer.
bedast 4y ago
I have an ecobee and keep it in a fairly dumb scheduling mode. My primary use, as of now, is to integrate with home assistant so I can have data at hand to make future decisions on energy and system usage. I tried something similar with Nest but holy crap is it a pain in the butt to integrate with home assistant, and keep the integration functioning.
- evanreichard 4y ago
  > [...] integrate with home assistant so I can have data at hand to make future decisions on energy and system usage This is actually what I've been doing. I haven't done anything actionable with the data yet, though. Beestat [0] has some great data break downs as well. On a similar note: My house is only a single zone and I've been manually adjusting the dampers when fall / spring come around. When I find some time, I want to try to build something that will automatically adjust the dampers based on where I am in the house to create a pseudo multi zone setup with Home Assistant. ___ [0] https://beestat.io/ https://beestat.io/

copperx 4y ago

> but I believe they should be providing a system that proactively cools when there is less demand _prior_ to an expected increase in demand. Effectively using your house as a "battery". Isn't this exactly what they do? That what the Nest does when there's going to be a spike; it cools the house.

evanreichard 4y ago
> Isn't this exactly what they do? That what the Nest does when there's going to be a spike; it cools the house. I don't have any experience with Nest, but the Ecobee seemed to just increase the cool set temp when there was demand. I didn't experience any proactive cooling. Interestingly, in the Ecobee Community Energy Savings FAQ I linked above it says: > [...] your thermostat may precool your home prior to the event to make sure you’re comfortable. But I never experienced this. I wonder if its energy provider dependent.
Kirby64 4y ago
The nest does this, but it's not very effective. We're getting the 'rush hour' stuff right now (it's 100-105 peak right now) and the Nest does the following: * Sets the thermostat 2 degrees cooler (74) ~1 hr prior to the rush hour time (3:30-5:30) * Sets the thermostat to 4 degrees warmer between rush hour timing. Problem is, with the current heat my house cannot be cooled down to 74 1 hour prior, and even still... it floats up to 80 degrees by ~4:30-5PM anyways and the AC kicks back on. Then it takes until ~10PM or so to get BACK to the 76 set temperature. This is a relatively modern house (built in 2010s), so it has modern insulation, sealing, etc. It's just ACs aren't really sized for being able to wildly swing temperatures and maintain temp. When it's 100+ degrees outside, they're sized so they run basically constantly when the sun is out, so slipping temperature means you're playing catch up for the rest of the night.
- copperx 4y ago
  It sounds like your AC might be of the wrong tonnage for your home. The Nest assumes your AC unit is sized correctly, although this is something the Nest should detect and plan accordingly.

ceejayoz 4y ago

Nest's does this; it cools below your set temperature in advance of the "Rush Hour" for a few hours. https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9244031 https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9244031

hwbehrens 4y ago
In my experience, it was not nearly sufficient. If your AC is appropriately sized (or undersized) for your house, you can't just drop several degrees in 2 hours during the hottest part of the day. Going from 78 to 72 to 84 in set temp looked more like 78 to 77 to 83 in practice. Granted this was in AZ in an older house, so extremely high outdoor temps combined with marginal insulation didn't help. If they pre-cooled the night before it might be a different story.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  I think a poorly insulated old house in Arizona is probably one of the worst-case scenarios here. Maybe there should be a configurable or learning-based pre-cool length, though.
supportengineer 4y ago
This feature actually makes my house uncomfortably cold.

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago

Like heating/cooling your house more in advance of demand? It would be neat if they could enable/disable demand on a rolling basis where AC runs for one subpopulation for part of an hour then for another subpopulation the next part.

celticninja 4y ago
or you know, dont live in the desert e.g Phoenix Arizona, or if you do decide to live in the desert then realise that's your choice and dont add to pollution and climate change by trying to cool down a desert with AC.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  Do you also recommend that people don’t live anywhere it snows? I mean, heating up in winter uses even more energy than cooling down in summer.
  - seiferteric 4y ago
    It's funny that I have seen several anti A/C articles and several pro Heat Pump articles in recent times, do you think they know these are the same things in reverse? At least A/C is often used in sunny locales were solar can be used effectively.
    - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
      Same thing in reverse but where I live, in the summer I'm cooling from 30C down to 20C and in winter I'm going from -18 to 18.
    - wiredfool 4y ago
      AC is more than 100% efficient in heating the environment. This is unfortunate, but thermodynamics will win in the long run. Heat pumps are more than 100% efficient at heating the house, which is what we want, and one of the places where we are on the same side as thermodynamics.

bfgoodrich 4y ago

Navarr 4y ago

Google is currently doing a proactive system called "Nest Renew"[1]. This system is more focused on using clean energy vs. dirty energy - at least for me (where there is no rate difference based on time) [1]: https://nestrenew.google.com/ https://nestrenew.google.com/

jandrese 4y ago

Nest has an energy saving feature that feels like it is trying to boil the frog. We normally keep the thermostat at 78F (~25.5C), but over the course of a couple of weeks it ticked it up to 79F, then 80, then 81, and now 82F (~28C). I had to go in and manually adjust the schedule to get it back to something reasonable.

LazyMans 4y ago
Where do you live? I'm just curious because I can't imagine living at 78F anymore.
- google234123 4y ago
  78-80 doesn't feel to bad in a dry climate imo
  - jandrese 4y ago
    I live in a fairly humid area, but the AC helps to drain the moisture out of the air so it's still livable. Ceiling fans on a low setting can also help you feel comfortable, especially if you don't have the sun shining on you.
  - mason55 4y ago
    Yeah we live in the foothills in Colorado at 7700 feet elevation. Typical summer day is 85 degrees and 20% humidity and we don’t have AC. It gets warm but fans are enough and I have a portable swamp cooler for when it gets really hot.
  - tasty_freeze 4y ago
    I live in Austin, TX. It has been 105-ish every day this week, but the humidity is 30% during the hot part of the day. My office has a ceiling fan which is on low most of the time. Some people will not believe this, but I have the minisplit set at 80F and when the sun sets I turn off the fan because I start to get cold. When I leave my office (which is attached to the garage) and walk the 40 feet into my house through the 98F evening air I often feel: ah, that warmth feels good. To summarize: it is one part adaptation to the heat, one part low humidity, and one part air circulation.

wil421 4y ago

It doesn’t work. People use electricity at peak hours because working people and families are on similar schedules. We all get home from work or wfh office, start cooking, and doing other things because we have time after work/school. Not to mention 5pm is usually the hottest part of the day so ACs run.

ceejayoz 4y ago
It does work, though. Nest's program pre-cools to get you through the hottest hours without having to kick on the AC, moving some of the region's demand from the 4-6pm slot to the 2-4pm slot. I find myself going "huh, it's getting a little warm" at about 5:45pm, at which point I check and remember it's a "Rush Hour" session.
- rblatz 4y ago
  Does precooking really work? I’d assume it would have to cool my house down below 65 to keep it below 80 all afternoon. 111+ days are brutal in certain rooms even with both ACs set to 76.
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    Does precooking really work?... 111+ days are brutal Not every solution works in every situation. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just might not work for you. (Posted from a location that was 108° last week.)
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Does precoo[l]ing really work? Depends on the shape of the temperature graph for the day, the power of your AC system, your insulation, etc. If your on a day that doesn't get below 90 and gets above 110 during the hottest part of the day and your AC is barely rated at the minimum recommended for your square footage and you have average insulation, no, and even regular AC use is going to be marginal and your AC is probably going to frequent service. (And the things that make precooling work better also will make your AC work better and, for the most part, more energy and maintenance cost efficiently when you aren't precooling.) If you live in a place where you frequently need AC, aside from decent insulation, getting an overrated, high-efficiency unit (which seem to be correlated for residential units, probably because both drive up cost, and there is a correlation between people looking for more capacity and people concerned with efficiency) is a serious quality of life improvement.

BeetleB 4y ago

The silly thing is that I can simply adjust my thermostat to a lower temperature, so that the effective temperature is the same as without this program. As an example, if I set it to 74, then when Energy Savings kicks in, it may set it to 76, which is too warm for me. So I simply set the "standard" temperature to 72, and it will set it to 74. I use the same energy as without this program, yet I get my $25 energy savings rebate. Silly.

ceejayoz 4y ago
That's fine, really. The utility's concern is predictability and burst capacity, not raw usage, so they know when and how many https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant to turn on, which may take a while.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  Not sure I follow. If they just want to know in advance, then they don't need to modify the temperature at all, correct?
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Lowering the load helps avoid needing the more expensive short term plants from coming online. Whether you go from 76 to 78 or from 66 to 68, you’re helping avoid the burst in demand they’d get.
    - BeetleB 4y ago
      That's true, assuming I changed the temperature setting prior to the event, and I likely won't time it perfectly (nor would I want to). The real thing is: These events last for hours. If what you say is true, then wouldn't altering the thermostat for a small period (e.g. 30 minutes) suffice?
sokoloff 4y ago
It seems like maintaining a higher delta-T from ambient would require more energy, not the same amount. You are still shaving the peak demand with this approach, so the $25 could still be earned.

tguvot 4y ago

in reality it's hard (and probably expensive) to proactively cool house with AC during summer at hot/sunny regions. I live in a house with rather good insulation (the one mandated by code) in south bay, yet all the walls getting rather warm and even if you try to precool air with AC walls with bring temperature back quickly My solution was to install whole house fan which runs through the night when temperature drops to 16C-14C. It allows to both replace air with colder one multiple times and due to improved air-flow to cool off the walls. After I shut windows close at morning most of the houses stays within comfort zone ( < 22C) till 6-7pm even on 40C days

mrguyorama 4y ago
If you can feel that your walls are warm I don't think that's good enough insulation. The whole house fan solution is great though.
- tguvot 4y ago
  i have walls insulated according to california build code. it's not really possible to add more insulation to them, unless you rip them off and do spray in insulation. insulated attic with radiant barrier and insulated floors. i just checked with IR camera, most of surfaces in the house are now 22C-24C. After a few days of 40+C walls ill go to 25-26. some walls (south side of house) even higher. There are few little spots where insulation doesn't sit properly - it will be around 28C. The biggest offender is skylight. Temperature near top of it can get to 60C. Edit. I think most people simply do not realize what temperature have internal and external walls in houses and how it interacts (or counteracts) AC. If you will go to read greenbuildings/passive houses forums, there are a bunch of discussions about thermal mass of the walls
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    it's not really possible to add more insulation to them, unless you rip them off and do spray in insulation. Actually, it's possible to inject foam insulation into walls without ripping them off. It goes in through small holes, or through utility boxes. Plenty of companies do that. I've even seen it advertised on TV in California.

moralestapia 4y ago

>Sorry, not sorry: I'm not willing to sacrifice my comfort for the ~$10/mo incentive. Hey, but at least you don't use plastic straws, right?

saurik 4y ago
Why would you expect someone who isn't willing to sacrifice their comfort for a $10/mo incentive to sacrifice their comfort for a $0/mo incentive? Deciding "I don't like this person's ethics" doesn't mean "this person is suddenly inconsistent": you need to check your knee-jerk responses :/.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  Well, for one thing people will often do for free things they wouldn’t do for money. Imagine choosing between “i will pay you $10 to come to my party” and “i’m having a party, will you come?”.
  - philwelch 4y ago
    Parties are supposed to be fun, so if someone offers to pay you to come to a party, that sends a signal that the party is not, in fact, going to be fun at all--otherwise, why would they pay you? On the other hand, paper straws are a shitty product that are unsuitable for use, but if I was offered a significant discount on beverages that were served with them...well, I wouldn't take it, but I could imagine someone who was desperately broke considering taking it.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      See, what you said is exactly the problem i have with mainstream climate solutions. The choice shouldn’t be paper straws vs plastic straws. The choice should be no straws vs straws. Similarly, the question shouldn’t be “can I run a/c slightly off peak” rather it should be “how can I run less a/c”. This applies all over the place. Electric cars have lifetime emissions that are lower, but in the same ballpark as ICE cars - if everyone switches to electric and changes nothing else, we still have climate change.

r3trohack3r 4y ago

Ecobee integrates with SRP in my area and does exactly what you describe. They know my billing plan (Time of Use - Demand) and, from my understanding, will coordinate with SRP ahead of a conservation event to pre-cool my house by up to 2 degrees before raising it by up to 4 degrees when attempting to “flatten the demand curve” of the grid.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

Our ecobee (Phoenix, so HOT) does the precooling and is buggily aware of the expensive time window for electrical rates. Arizona Power just shrunk the expensive time window, not sure how that made sense, but the ecobee seems to not know, nor is there any way i could find to inform ecobee of the new shorter expensive time window. I've had two Nests before, and two Ecobees, and they both were fine, in general, but for the next house not sure which I'd prefer.

bedast 4y ago

I have an ecobee and keep it in a fairly dumb scheduling mode. My primary use, as of now, is to integrate with home assistant so I can have data at hand to make future decisions on energy and system usage. I tried something similar with Nest but holy crap is it a pain in the butt to integrate with home assistant, and keep the integration functioning.

evanreichard 4y ago
> [...] integrate with home assistant so I can have data at hand to make future decisions on energy and system usage This is actually what I've been doing. I haven't done anything actionable with the data yet, though. Beestat [0] has some great data break downs as well. On a similar note: My house is only a single zone and I've been manually adjusting the dampers when fall / spring come around. When I find some time, I want to try to build something that will automatically adjust the dampers based on where I am in the house to create a pseudo multi zone setup with Home Assistant. ___ [0] https://beestat.io/ https://beestat.io/