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Is this an average for newly signed rent, or for the average one already paid now? If former, it looks incredibly low. I mean, this is what you pay for an above

Is this an average for newly signed rent, or for the average one already paid now? If former, it looks incredibly low. I mean, this is what you pay for an above-average (but not posh) place in East Europe capitals, and for pretty much average ones in old European cities like Paris or Munich.

FartyMcFarter 4y ago
What is an average place that costs $5k a month in Paris? That sounds like way too much.
- jpdpeters 4y ago
  That sounds waaay too expensive. GDP per capita is 39K USD and 18% of the population lives in Paris. How would that work?
  - anovikov 4y ago
    "Paris" is only the small place within the old walls. It's population is under 2M, most of them owners, with ownership lasting since before WWI, who could never afford to buy (or rent) now. Rest are suburbs and don't have Paris on it's address. And sure, rents there are a lot lot cheaper.
    - ctvo 4y ago
      You continue to reply to defend your position that 5k euros is below average rent per month for Eastern European capitals in their most attractive locations. Do you actually have data? It's such an extraordinary claim people are using Paris (not an Eastern European capital) as a counter example, but let's not move the goal post.
      - anovikov 4y ago
        Just for the record, i agree that i was wrong, i checked prices, indeed they are about 2x smaller than i assumed (not in Paris but in East Europe capitals). Looks like i need to get out of my social bubble more frequently. That doesn't affect my initial claim though: indeed, the quoted Manhattan rents in the original article include existing contracts, including decades-old regulated rental contracts, and do not represent average prices of new rentals signed now.
throwawayben 4y ago
Per month?
- anovikov 4y ago
  Obviously. But because price change is so small over so many years, i am inclined to think it's average of existing contracts, not of newly signed ones, and vast majority are regulated rentals signed 30-50 years ago, that are super low maybe 1000-2000 per month, and drive down the average.
  - moonchrome 4y ago
    What ? Your numbers sound 2x above what I'm seeing casually browsing ads. Or you have super inflated expectations of what's "above average but not posh" - like penthouses with views and things.
    - vultour 4y ago
      One of his comments from 2016 says he spends all of his 100k/year living in Vilnius. I don't know what kind of mansion he is living in but this guy is clearly completely detached from reality. Most people in eastern Europe barely break 2k a month, in many countries less than half that. No chance average rent is anywhere close to 5k.
rguillebert 4y ago
This is monthly rent, not yearly...
laszlojamf 4y ago
It's $5k a month, i.e. the same as five thousand euros a month. In rent. Now, I haven't rented in Paris, but in Munich, that would be a castle.
asciiresort 4y ago
For a 1-2 bedroom apartment ? Those prices would mean a software engineer in Europe would not even have money for rent after paying taxes, much less anything else.
- shankr 4y ago
  > Those prices would mea a software engineer in Europe would not even have money for rent after paying taxes, much less anything else. Very much the story of lot of South European engineers. I used to pay 800 euros as rent when I was earning 1200 euros/month fresh out of university in Madrid.
Varqu 4y ago
You probably are talking about yearly amount, not monthly. In Warsaw you would get top tier places with private pool and cleaning service for no more than 2500 USD per month.
endless1234 4y ago
What? $5k a month is absolutely not something you pay for an above average place in east European capitals, nor in old European cities. Check e.g. https://www.expats.cz/praguerealestate/apartments/for-rent https://www.expats.cz/praguerealestate/apartments/for-rent for a pretty expensive central european capital - around 20k CZK for studios, or 800 euros/usd. There are only 16 out of 1042 properties at over 120k CZK (~5k eur/usd), and they're huge (around 200m^2 and central).
II2II 4y ago
From the article: > If those numbers seem low — after all there are headlines about 40% rent increases — it's because the CPI measure includes renewal rents, the price you pay when you renew your lease.
- anovikov 4y ago
  So right, just as i have expected. And vast majority of these renewed leases are regulated ones, being renewed from the Carter era if not before.
samsonradu 4y ago
Maybe we have different definitions of posh, but 5k gets you very far in East Europe capitals. That’s a lot of money that can get you 6+ bedroom villas in downtown Bucharest.
rpadovani 4y ago
What are you talking about? 5k in Munich, you can rent a 200mq apartment in Maxvorstadt
deanmoriarty 4y ago
I really wish you took the time, after what appears to be a rather inflammatory comment, to reply to the folks who are very specifically questioning your argument.

FartyMcFarter 4y ago

What is an average place that costs $5k a month in Paris? That sounds like way too much.

jpdpeters 4y ago
That sounds waaay too expensive. GDP per capita is 39K USD and 18% of the population lives in Paris. How would that work?
- anovikov 4y ago
  "Paris" is only the small place within the old walls. It's population is under 2M, most of them owners, with ownership lasting since before WWI, who could never afford to buy (or rent) now. Rest are suburbs and don't have Paris on it's address. And sure, rents there are a lot lot cheaper.
  - ctvo 4y ago
    You continue to reply to defend your position that 5k euros is below average rent per month for Eastern European capitals in their most attractive locations. Do you actually have data? It's such an extraordinary claim people are using Paris (not an Eastern European capital) as a counter example, but let's not move the goal post.
    - anovikov 4y ago
      Just for the record, i agree that i was wrong, i checked prices, indeed they are about 2x smaller than i assumed (not in Paris but in East Europe capitals). Looks like i need to get out of my social bubble more frequently. That doesn't affect my initial claim though: indeed, the quoted Manhattan rents in the original article include existing contracts, including decades-old regulated rental contracts, and do not represent average prices of new rentals signed now.

throwawayben 4y ago

Per month?

anovikov 4y ago
Obviously. But because price change is so small over so many years, i am inclined to think it's average of existing contracts, not of newly signed ones, and vast majority are regulated rentals signed 30-50 years ago, that are super low maybe 1000-2000 per month, and drive down the average.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  What ? Your numbers sound 2x above what I'm seeing casually browsing ads. Or you have super inflated expectations of what's "above average but not posh" - like penthouses with views and things.
  - vultour 4y ago
    One of his comments from 2016 says he spends all of his 100k/year living in Vilnius. I don't know what kind of mansion he is living in but this guy is clearly completely detached from reality. Most people in eastern Europe barely break 2k a month, in many countries less than half that. No chance average rent is anywhere close to 5k.

rguillebert 4y ago

This is monthly rent, not yearly...

laszlojamf 4y ago

It's $5k a month, i.e. the same as five thousand euros a month. In rent. Now, I haven't rented in Paris, but in Munich, that would be a castle.

asciiresort 4y ago

For a 1-2 bedroom apartment ? Those prices would mean a software engineer in Europe would not even have money for rent after paying taxes, much less anything else.

shankr 4y ago
> Those prices would mea a software engineer in Europe would not even have money for rent after paying taxes, much less anything else. Very much the story of lot of South European engineers. I used to pay 800 euros as rent when I was earning 1200 euros/month fresh out of university in Madrid.

Varqu 4y ago

You probably are talking about yearly amount, not monthly. In Warsaw you would get top tier places with private pool and cleaning service for no more than 2500 USD per month.

endless1234 4y ago

What? $5k a month is absolutely not something you pay for an above average place in east European capitals, nor in old European cities. Check e.g. https://www.expats.cz/praguerealestate/apartments/for-rent https://www.expats.cz/praguerealestate/apartments/for-rent for a pretty expensive central european capital - around 20k CZK for studios, or 800 euros/usd. There are only 16 out of 1042 properties at over 120k CZK (~5k eur/usd), and they're huge (around 200m^2 and central).

II2II 4y ago

From the article: > If those numbers seem low — after all there are headlines about 40% rent increases — it's because the CPI measure includes renewal rents, the price you pay when you renew your lease.

anovikov 4y ago
So right, just as i have expected. And vast majority of these renewed leases are regulated ones, being renewed from the Carter era if not before.

samsonradu 4y ago

Maybe we have different definitions of posh, but 5k gets you very far in East Europe capitals. That’s a lot of money that can get you 6+ bedroom villas in downtown Bucharest.

rpadovani 4y ago

What are you talking about? 5k in Munich, you can rent a 200mq apartment in Maxvorstadt

deanmoriarty 4y ago

I really wish you took the time, after what appears to be a rather inflammatory comment, to reply to the folks who are very specifically questioning your argument.