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It must be "in their DNA" or something. You could replace "Pokemon Go" with "Ingress", their earlier game, and get to almost exactly the same conclusions. Also

It must be "in their DNA" or something. You could replace "Pokemon Go" with "Ingress", their earlier game, and get to almost exactly the same conclusions. Also, with Ingress the most innovative area was also the one that players complained about the loudest - I am talking about actual player interactions. Going to someone else's portal and bombing it, creating blocker links, covering a strategic area with a huge field so as to win the cycle, etc. Unfortunately it got too competitive some players, so they started location spoofing, edit wars on portals and other behaviors that made the experience shitty for others. Niantic's reaction was to gut that from their next games rather than try to improve. So I'm still waiting for a good location-based game where you can have some real location-based interactions with other players. Current offering is mostly "everybody going outside and playing a single-player game next to each other".

hnbad 4y ago
I think Introversion Software's "Subversion"[0] is an excellent case study for the kind of problem Niantic's games always had: all tech demo, no game. Ingress was an incredibly exciting technical innovation at the time. The idea of playing an area control game using your real world GPS coordinates was novel and the game encouraged genuine discovery in its initial phase by allowing you to record local points of interest: even in your hometown the game might lead you to walk down a road you were unfamiliar with and discover an interesting monument, fountain or building. But they never really considered where to take it from there. Once the novelty wore off, it was mostly grind. Advanced players quickly developed strategies to optimize their play and "casuals" quickly fell behind with no way to catch up. The game remained fun for a small core group but effectively lacked an on-ramp for new players. Pokemon Go repeated this problem. They had created new exciting systems but not figured out how to make the game sustainably "fun" for most players. I can only recommend watching the entire Failure Masterclass series from Introversion Software but at least the final video addressing their most anticipated game that never was, Subversion (a spiritual successor to Uplink). Without spoiling too much, the game was becoming increasingly complex and interesting but ultimately failed because there was no "game" there that would survive contact with players. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giu6sMnAxY&list=PLbv7YX5V1ccWqZDhUtUQdUIpMg--o-U6l&index=9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giu6sMnAxY&list=PLbv7YX5V1c...
- mavhc 4y ago
  There's no problem with catching up in Ingress, once you get to level 8 you're as powerful as anyone else. The game is you go outside and discover interesting places, then if you want, make friends with other players and organise stuff together
  - praptak 4y ago
    High level play is not about levels, it's about having multiple hours per day to drive around, gather resources and create links. Access to portals in closed areas is a bonus. A group of determined players can keep a town permanently covered by a field, preventing everybody else from playing, especially if the anchor portals are in military bases or gated communities.
    - RicoElectrico 4y ago
      In theory unreachable portals can be eligible for deletion by reporting them on Niantic Wayfarer forum. But that forum is a cesspool, both users and moderators are such assholes.
      - praptak 4y ago
        There was this idiotic rule that a portal is considered reachable if more than one family can reach it. So gated communities were officially fair game.
      - Cayde-6 4y ago
        Definitely "in theory". A friend and I reported several portals that were completely unreachable by the public, deep into private property, and/or clearly physically unsafe. "Nah, portal's fine" was always the response form Niantic, if we even got one at all.
    - mavhc 4y ago
      You can create links up to 500m under fields now. Maybe you need to play the game of being friendly with the people who permafield you and convincing them not to. Or being friendly with people who can stop them Not really high level play, just high don't-care-about-anyone-else play
sitkack 4y ago
"in their DNA", it is a Google spin out after all.
cykros 4y ago
Spot on. Ingress was fun when there was engagement, and it largely came down to whether or not your local community was particularly lame. However, that it was even able to succeed as well as it did had largely to do with not being particularly popular, in particular among the minor population. They'd almost need a 21+ age verifier to avoid the disaster that'd come with a game of that nature that actually grew to large scale. I'd love to see Shadowrun as an AR GPS game, but it absolutely is in this boat.

hnbad 4y ago

I think Introversion Software's "Subversion"[0] is an excellent case study for the kind of problem Niantic's games always had: all tech demo, no game. Ingress was an incredibly exciting technical innovation at the time. The idea of playing an area control game using your real world GPS coordinates was novel and the game encouraged genuine discovery in its initial phase by allowing you to record local points of interest: even in your hometown the game might lead you to walk down a road you were unfamiliar with and discover an interesting monument, fountain or building. But they never really considered where to take it from there. Once the novelty wore off, it was mostly grind. Advanced players quickly developed strategies to optimize their play and "casuals" quickly fell behind with no way to catch up. The game remained fun for a small core group but effectively lacked an on-ramp for new players. Pokemon Go repeated this problem. They had created new exciting systems but not figured out how to make the game sustainably "fun" for most players. I can only recommend watching the entire Failure Masterclass series from Introversion Software but at least the final video addressing their most anticipated game that never was, Subversion (a spiritual successor to Uplink). Without spoiling too much, the game was becoming increasingly complex and interesting but ultimately failed because there was no "game" there that would survive contact with players. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giu6sMnAxY&list=PLbv7YX5V1ccWqZDhUtUQdUIpMg--o-U6l&index=9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giu6sMnAxY&list=PLbv7YX5V1c...

mavhc 4y ago
There's no problem with catching up in Ingress, once you get to level 8 you're as powerful as anyone else. The game is you go outside and discover interesting places, then if you want, make friends with other players and organise stuff together
- praptak 4y ago
  High level play is not about levels, it's about having multiple hours per day to drive around, gather resources and create links. Access to portals in closed areas is a bonus. A group of determined players can keep a town permanently covered by a field, preventing everybody else from playing, especially if the anchor portals are in military bases or gated communities.
  - RicoElectrico 4y ago
    In theory unreachable portals can be eligible for deletion by reporting them on Niantic Wayfarer forum. But that forum is a cesspool, both users and moderators are such assholes.
    - praptak 4y ago
      There was this idiotic rule that a portal is considered reachable if more than one family can reach it. So gated communities were officially fair game.
    - Cayde-6 4y ago
      Definitely "in theory". A friend and I reported several portals that were completely unreachable by the public, deep into private property, and/or clearly physically unsafe. "Nah, portal's fine" was always the response form Niantic, if we even got one at all.
  - mavhc 4y ago
    You can create links up to 500m under fields now. Maybe you need to play the game of being friendly with the people who permafield you and convincing them not to. Or being friendly with people who can stop them Not really high level play, just high don't-care-about-anyone-else play

sitkack 4y ago

"in their DNA", it is a Google spin out after all.

cykros 4y ago

Spot on. Ingress was fun when there was engagement, and it largely came down to whether or not your local community was particularly lame. However, that it was even able to succeed as well as it did had largely to do with not being particularly popular, in particular among the minor population. They'd almost need a 21+ age verifier to avoid the disaster that'd come with a game of that nature that actually grew to large scale. I'd love to see Shadowrun as an AR GPS game, but it absolutely is in this boat.