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If Musk actually said this he's an even bigger idiot than I gave him credit for. He makes the best cars in the world (obviously IMHO) and that's worth a lot mor

If Musk actually said this he's an even bigger idiot than I gave him credit for. He makes the best cars in the world (obviously IMHO) and that's worth a lot more than 0. I couldn't give less of a damn if they can't drive themselves.

sn41 4y ago
IMHO, the best cars in the world are still Toyotas - not the bleeding edge, mind you, just more reliability, overall "gets out of the way and does the job" in the most effective manner possible.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  With the supply chains this wild, and increased costs everywhere else, I’m also happy to be a Toyota owner. A healthy aftermarket for parts too just in case. And we get CarPlay!
strikelaserclaw 4y ago
best cars in the world is a stretch
- pwagland 4y ago
  It is a stretch, but they are clearly also not the worst. The company clearly has value without FSD. Not the value that the market currently gives it, but value nonetheless.
carbadtraingood 4y ago
As an owner for 5+ years, the cars show well but pretty quickly become a pain in the ass. They'll get eclipsed by other electric car manufacturers real quick. Edit: more specifically, the parts break and they are difficult to replace. The battery degrades. They stopped providing maps to the vehicle unless I'm willing to spend several hundred dollars to replace the media console, they've told me I'm covered by a recall/warranty but have been unable to schedule the appointment.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > As an owner for 5+ years, the cars show well but pretty quickly become a pain in the ass. I agree. As a former owner. They are fun to show. But there are real annoyances. In the case of the Model 3 in particular, I quickly tired of the door handles. The psychotic windshield wipers. No CarPlay. The smartphone unlocking which worked most of the time until just that moment when your hands were full. It became a chore to live with. But dear god was it fast (I had the Performance trim). Not enough. I need my daily driver to not be a PITA. I'm very interested in what the competition is doing. Ford one-upped the Model Y by putting that knob on the display and then adding another display in front of the driver. Most of the competitive EVs have real interiors, for that matter. All of them have CarPlay. Porsche made a legit sports car. The future looks bright!
  - bredren 4y ago
    Given your experiences, I'm curious about your and parent's feedback on the following: * What are your current top alternative make / models? * If you have some you're tracking, which make / models are you most anticipating?
    - carbadtraingood 4y ago
      Ford lighting is currently my next vehicle, but we have a need for a truck specifically (we have forest land we work on conserving). I'm keeping an eye on Kia, VW, Hyundai right now. But I expect other manufacturers will catch up.
    - sorenjan 4y ago
      Look at Polestar, VW, Kia, and Hyundai. Hyundai released their Ioniq 6 today.
      - bredren 4y ago
        Thanks for this. I checked out a YT video about Ioniq 6 and was interested enough to look for the official page. (that matte black one looks pretty cool) [1] But oof, the web site is just terrible. I can't imagine the effort that went into that car and then have it be paired with what they've come up with there. I hope that competition rises to the level of Tesla on the product presentation / ordering side as well. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGlmdcS8bZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGlmdcS8bZU
akmarinov 4y ago
I’ll give you best in efficiency, quick electric cars As for luxury, quality, ride comfort - they’re just ok
bhauer 4y ago
It was exaggeration as a figure of speech to suggest that if self-driving is solved, it will make the EV business look incredibly small. What's shocking is how many people interpreted it literally--that the value is literally zero without self-driving--as if the successful EV business is in fact unsuccessful.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
moomoo11 4y ago
I ended up selling mine because the build quality started getting on my nerves. Misaligned panels that are "within spec" or interior rattles that make the ride completely unpleasant (at only 10k miles). The tech is all right, and I got to try auto pilot at a discount. Unfortunately the phantom braking made AP completely useless with passengers who would freak out and complain. However, when it worked it was quite nice but I ended up using it way less than I'd hoped. Glad I didn't pay 12k for it! The best part of owning the car was the insane acceleration and supercharger network at the beginning. But, that got annoying as more people started getting Teslas. Going on longer trips meant a ton of anxiety especially since some superchargers in cities would be packed. Worse, some would be out of order or slow charging. After the gimmick wore off, wasting 45 minutes to go another 2-3 hours started becoming annoying. And before someone asks why 2-3 hours, its called hills. California is full of them, and especially where I live I lose so much efficiency climbing hills. Anyway overall I'd rate the car 5/10. Fastest car I've ever owned. Beyond that it was pretty much exactly as they described - a beta product. I'll probably try a Tesla again in 5-10 years.
- misiti3780 4y ago
  you're in the minority ...
  - moomoo11 4y ago
    I am just giving my anecdotal experience. I hope I can have a better one by the time I try a later Tesla model.
- Infinitesimus 4y ago
  Now I'm curious, what did you replace it with and which model did you have?
  - moomoo11 4y ago
    Model 3 performance and replaced by a Honda
- dham 4y ago
dekhn 4y ago
I was prepared to buy a Tesla, and even planned on doing the full acceptance process (https://github.com/polymorphic/tesla-model-y-checklist https://github.com/polymorphic/tesla-model-y-checklist) at the factory (a short drive from my house) but after Musk announced the Model Y was losing the radar and reading a bit more about their problems with FSD Beta (which I was planning to spend $10K to get), I concluded their cars were not the best in the world. I went and got a toyota which could pretty much have the engine compartment welded shut for ten years (modulo oil changes) and run perfectly. It's a real shame because in principle having a manufacturing facility making great electric cars in the bay area would be a real win. Musk's reality distortion field is cracking.
cmelbye 4y ago
I think his point is that FSD is an inevitability and when it comes it will generally upend the way we think about cars. Manual driving may always be a thing but it would become more of a passion than a way to get to work in the morning. The vast majority of value would come from autonomous transportation and logistics.
hinkley 4y ago
In theory if Tesla just figures out how to make batteries at scale they could be quite successful even if their sales numbers plateau. But in practice it doesn't seem like auto part wholesalers have a whole hell of a lot of power to set prices. Some of the better known brands are subsidiaries, and a few seem to have started as such.
kaba0 4y ago
How are they the best cars in the world? I saw you add IMHO, but unless you mean it like children saying t-rex being the best dino, it really doesn’t bode well with reality. Like, at least give one metric on which they are measurably “the best”.

sn41 4y ago

IMHO, the best cars in the world are still Toyotas - not the bleeding edge, mind you, just more reliability, overall "gets out of the way and does the job" in the most effective manner possible.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago
With the supply chains this wild, and increased costs everywhere else, I’m also happy to be a Toyota owner. A healthy aftermarket for parts too just in case. And we get CarPlay!

strikelaserclaw 4y ago

best cars in the world is a stretch

pwagland 4y ago
It is a stretch, but they are clearly also not the worst. The company clearly has value without FSD. Not the value that the market currently gives it, but value nonetheless.

carbadtraingood 4y ago

As an owner for 5+ years, the cars show well but pretty quickly become a pain in the ass. They'll get eclipsed by other electric car manufacturers real quick. Edit: more specifically, the parts break and they are difficult to replace. The battery degrades. They stopped providing maps to the vehicle unless I'm willing to spend several hundred dollars to replace the media console, they've told me I'm covered by a recall/warranty but have been unable to schedule the appointment.

rootusrootus 4y ago
> As an owner for 5+ years, the cars show well but pretty quickly become a pain in the ass. I agree. As a former owner. They are fun to show. But there are real annoyances. In the case of the Model 3 in particular, I quickly tired of the door handles. The psychotic windshield wipers. No CarPlay. The smartphone unlocking which worked most of the time until just that moment when your hands were full. It became a chore to live with. But dear god was it fast (I had the Performance trim). Not enough. I need my daily driver to not be a PITA. I'm very interested in what the competition is doing. Ford one-upped the Model Y by putting that knob on the display and then adding another display in front of the driver. Most of the competitive EVs have real interiors, for that matter. All of them have CarPlay. Porsche made a legit sports car. The future looks bright!
- bredren 4y ago
  Given your experiences, I'm curious about your and parent's feedback on the following: * What are your current top alternative make / models? * If you have some you're tracking, which make / models are you most anticipating?
  - carbadtraingood 4y ago
    Ford lighting is currently my next vehicle, but we have a need for a truck specifically (we have forest land we work on conserving). I'm keeping an eye on Kia, VW, Hyundai right now. But I expect other manufacturers will catch up.
  - sorenjan 4y ago
    Look at Polestar, VW, Kia, and Hyundai. Hyundai released their Ioniq 6 today.
    - bredren 4y ago
      Thanks for this. I checked out a YT video about Ioniq 6 and was interested enough to look for the official page. (that matte black one looks pretty cool) [1] But oof, the web site is just terrible. I can't imagine the effort that went into that car and then have it be paired with what they've come up with there. I hope that competition rises to the level of Tesla on the product presentation / ordering side as well. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGlmdcS8bZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGlmdcS8bZU

akmarinov 4y ago

I’ll give you best in efficiency, quick electric cars As for luxury, quality, ride comfort - they’re just ok

bhauer 4y ago

It was exaggeration as a figure of speech to suggest that if self-driving is solved, it will make the EV business look incredibly small. What's shocking is how many people interpreted it literally--that the value is literally zero without self-driving--as if the successful EV business is in fact unsuccessful.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

moomoo11 4y ago

I ended up selling mine because the build quality started getting on my nerves. Misaligned panels that are "within spec" or interior rattles that make the ride completely unpleasant (at only 10k miles). The tech is all right, and I got to try auto pilot at a discount. Unfortunately the phantom braking made AP completely useless with passengers who would freak out and complain. However, when it worked it was quite nice but I ended up using it way less than I'd hoped. Glad I didn't pay 12k for it! The best part of owning the car was the insane acceleration and supercharger network at the beginning. But, that got annoying as more people started getting Teslas. Going on longer trips meant a ton of anxiety especially since some superchargers in cities would be packed. Worse, some would be out of order or slow charging. After the gimmick wore off, wasting 45 minutes to go another 2-3 hours started becoming annoying. And before someone asks why 2-3 hours, its called hills. California is full of them, and especially where I live I lose so much efficiency climbing hills. Anyway overall I'd rate the car 5/10. Fastest car I've ever owned. Beyond that it was pretty much exactly as they described - a beta product. I'll probably try a Tesla again in 5-10 years.

misiti3780 4y ago
you're in the minority ...
- moomoo11 4y ago
  I am just giving my anecdotal experience. I hope I can have a better one by the time I try a later Tesla model.
Infinitesimus 4y ago
Now I'm curious, what did you replace it with and which model did you have?
- moomoo11 4y ago
  Model 3 performance and replaced by a Honda
dham 4y ago

dekhn 4y ago

I was prepared to buy a Tesla, and even planned on doing the full acceptance process (https://github.com/polymorphic/tesla-model-y-checklist https://github.com/polymorphic/tesla-model-y-checklist) at the factory (a short drive from my house) but after Musk announced the Model Y was losing the radar and reading a bit more about their problems with FSD Beta (which I was planning to spend $10K to get), I concluded their cars were not the best in the world. I went and got a toyota which could pretty much have the engine compartment welded shut for ten years (modulo oil changes) and run perfectly. It's a real shame because in principle having a manufacturing facility making great electric cars in the bay area would be a real win. Musk's reality distortion field is cracking.

cmelbye 4y ago

I think his point is that FSD is an inevitability and when it comes it will generally upend the way we think about cars. Manual driving may always be a thing but it would become more of a passion than a way to get to work in the morning. The vast majority of value would come from autonomous transportation and logistics.

hinkley 4y ago

In theory if Tesla just figures out how to make batteries at scale they could be quite successful even if their sales numbers plateau. But in practice it doesn't seem like auto part wholesalers have a whole hell of a lot of power to set prices. Some of the better known brands are subsidiaries, and a few seem to have started as such.

kaba0 4y ago

How are they the best cars in the world? I saw you add IMHO, but unless you mean it like children saying t-rex being the best dino, it really doesn’t bode well with reality. Like, at least give one metric on which they are measurably “the best”.