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I use these examples in layers (I have a networking background so my mind more or less thinks in OSI layers). For actual products bitcoin (and blockchains like
by kkielhofner 4y ago
I use these examples in layers (I have a networking background so my mind more or less thinks in OSI layers).
For actual products bitcoin (and blockchains like Ethereum with EVM) are the fundamental enabling layer. I like to think of them somewhat akin to TCP/IP or even HTTP. Where are the higher layer applications and use cases built on blockchain with instant and obvious utility to the average person walking down the street? This is what I was getting at with the decade plus of development and billions of dollars of investment.
The internet was a fundamental threat to all kinds of institutions - governments with censorship, big media (including state run), and even financial institutions. The internet provided instant untold value for democracy and free speech. Just widespread and instantly available encryption itself was a HUGE problem and threat to governments, law enforcement, militaries, intelligence agencies, etc. Remember the Clipper Chip "debate" and 40 bit encryption export controls? I do.
Yet the obvious value and utility was so clear even governments like China (with the Great Firewall) knew it was of such incredible value to the economy and clamored for by the citizenry they figured out a way to make it work within their system of government. Inside of a decade billions of people were using the internet to further democracy, free speech, and the dissemination of information.
- olalonde 4y agoI agree that the Internet's utility is more obvious than Bitcoin. Bitcoin has little or even negative value to authoritarians. Even in more liberal countries, financial sovereignty and privacy are not generally viewed as important. But to me, this is just more reason to believe that the pace of adoption will be slow and gradual.
- imtringued 4y agoBitcoin has very high value for authoritarians. If you can enforce the currency you can enforce wealth inequality and entrenchment of incumbents.
- olalonde 4y ago> Bitcoin has very high value for authoritarians. Then why have almost all authoritarian governments banned Bitcoin? > If you can enforce the currency you can enforce wealth inequality and entrenchment of incumbents. That's the whole point. No one can control Bitcoin which is why it's not appealing to authoritarians. Authoritarians don't like things they can't have authority over.
- andirk 4y agoCan you elaborate or add citations? Your claim is possible but so far we have seen the opposite with autocrats, authoritarians, groups who benefit from controlling their own currency.
- skinnymuch 4y agoBitcoin is an authoritarian’s wet dream as evidenced by the libertarian philosophies of crypto bros and how Bitcoin and crypto have played out. Showing authoritarian governments don’t like Bitcoin doesn’t help. Western conservatives and CCP’s social views are very similar. Yet they despise one another. Of course. Authoritarians want to be the ones in control. Why would they like other authoritarians?
- olalonde 4y agoFirst, your sentence makes no sense at all. Libertarianism is practically the opposite of authoritarianism. Libertarians are in favor of a small state with limited power. Authoritarians want the opposite. Second, "Bitcoin being high value to authoritarians" is another way of saying that authoritarians like Bitcoin. There's a lot of evidence that they don't, and for good reason: they can't control it.
- skinnymuch 4y agoCryptopunk dystopians are libertarian wet dreams as well as crypto bro wet dream. The opposite of authoritarianism is anarchism. Anarchism and libertarians are not the same thing. One is hard left, the other is hard right. They can’t both be the opposite of authoritarianism. Libertarians want to be the ones in power. Being in power is something authoritarians enjoy too. I already responded to the authoritarians not liking something does not mean anything about their principles or beliefs.