3 ms·

I'm hoping this gets established, and then expands so data brokers can't sell data sets with labels like "anxious" or "likely depressed". Right now, corporatio

I'm hoping this gets established, and then expands so data brokers can't sell data sets with labels like "anxious" or "likely depressed". Right now, corporations are intentionally or unintentionally behaviorally conditioning people. Given behavioral shaping is a medical practice and is largely being performed without consent, it needs to stop.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
If Congress cared about privacy they would have enacted relevant laws decades ago. They sure were quick to protect their own video rental records when those were weaponized. The data broker industry is relied upon by the government to sidestep 4A and Congress has been complicit in not regulating them. Because of the attention, there will be some hollow gestures to further protect health data outside the current reach of HIPAA and nothing more. I'll just add that the brokers don't need app data to get information about menstrual cycles. I sat in a meeting at a long established data broker in the late 90's (pre-Google) where they gushed about their ability to track cycles from purchase records. A lot of detailed personal information can be gleaned with data analysis from seemingly innocuous sources and, without broad data protection laws, none of us are immune to this invasiveness.
- vasco 4y ago
  Maybe these superhuman marketers with perfect understanding of human behavior exist, but since I've never met one it's hard for me to picture. What does it matter when the cycles are? Is it to try and sell pain medication for the low percentage of women that suffer during it? Whenever these stories are told you'd think someone is achieving world domination, but my suspicion is that the large majority of companies can't even do anything very interesting with this data that they collect unethically.
  - krageon 4y ago
    The harm is real, even if you try to ridicule it. None of your refutation is founded on the reality of the harm (or what was claimed, AFAICT). This is called a strawman.
    - vasco 4y ago
      But I didn't say there was no harm? I asked for examples as it's hard for me to picture them. Another commenter gave a good example of how government agencies can use this data for nefarious things, I was originally curious of ways of profiting from knowing what was initially discussed, when the cycle is. I think because the topic is charged you saw ridicule where there was none.
  - lelandfe 4y ago
    Missouri officials used women's menstrual cycle data in 2019 in a quest to shut down the state's last abortion clinic.[0] This was legal due to a lack of HIPAA restrictions. It would not be difficult to use this data in a post-Roe US to litigate against abortions. > companies can't even do anything very interesting with this data that they collect I'm not concerned about the companies. I'm concerned about domestic agencies that purchase that data to workaround restrictions that prevent them from collecting it.[1][2][3][4](stretching to inf.) Like your parent commenter stated, this is to avoid Fourth Amendment restrictions. [0] https://time.com/5713804/missouri-health-official-planned-parenthood-periods/ https://time.com/5713804/missouri-health-official-planned-pa... [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/treasury-watchdog-warns-of-governments-use-of-cellphone-data-without-warrants-11614003868 https://www.wsj.com/articles/treasury-watchdog-warns-of-gove... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-agencies-use-cellphone-location-data-for-immigration-enforcement-11581078600 https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-agencies-use-cellphone-... [3] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-cell-phone-data-tracking-geolocation https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-ce... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/26/ice-private-utility-data/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/26/ice-pri...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
whatever1 4y ago
“Likely pregnant” can also be dangerous these days

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago

If Congress cared about privacy they would have enacted relevant laws decades ago. They sure were quick to protect their own video rental records when those were weaponized. The data broker industry is relied upon by the government to sidestep 4A and Congress has been complicit in not regulating them. Because of the attention, there will be some hollow gestures to further protect health data outside the current reach of HIPAA and nothing more. I'll just add that the brokers don't need app data to get information about menstrual cycles. I sat in a meeting at a long established data broker in the late 90's (pre-Google) where they gushed about their ability to track cycles from purchase records. A lot of detailed personal information can be gleaned with data analysis from seemingly innocuous sources and, without broad data protection laws, none of us are immune to this invasiveness.

vasco 4y ago
Maybe these superhuman marketers with perfect understanding of human behavior exist, but since I've never met one it's hard for me to picture. What does it matter when the cycles are? Is it to try and sell pain medication for the low percentage of women that suffer during it? Whenever these stories are told you'd think someone is achieving world domination, but my suspicion is that the large majority of companies can't even do anything very interesting with this data that they collect unethically.
- krageon 4y ago
  The harm is real, even if you try to ridicule it. None of your refutation is founded on the reality of the harm (or what was claimed, AFAICT). This is called a strawman.
  - vasco 4y ago
    But I didn't say there was no harm? I asked for examples as it's hard for me to picture them. Another commenter gave a good example of how government agencies can use this data for nefarious things, I was originally curious of ways of profiting from knowing what was initially discussed, when the cycle is. I think because the topic is charged you saw ridicule where there was none.
- lelandfe 4y ago
  Missouri officials used women's menstrual cycle data in 2019 in a quest to shut down the state's last abortion clinic.[0] This was legal due to a lack of HIPAA restrictions. It would not be difficult to use this data in a post-Roe US to litigate against abortions. > companies can't even do anything very interesting with this data that they collect I'm not concerned about the companies. I'm concerned about domestic agencies that purchase that data to workaround restrictions that prevent them from collecting it.[1][2][3][4](stretching to inf.) Like your parent commenter stated, this is to avoid Fourth Amendment restrictions. [0] https://time.com/5713804/missouri-health-official-planned-parenthood-periods/ https://time.com/5713804/missouri-health-official-planned-pa... [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/treasury-watchdog-warns-of-governments-use-of-cellphone-data-without-warrants-11614003868 https://www.wsj.com/articles/treasury-watchdog-warns-of-gove... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-agencies-use-cellphone-location-data-for-immigration-enforcement-11581078600 https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-agencies-use-cellphone-... [3] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-cell-phone-data-tracking-geolocation https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-dhs-ce... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/26/ice-private-utility-data/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/26/ice-pri...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

whatever1 4y ago

“Likely pregnant” can also be dangerous these days