16 ms·

When I worked in consulting we had a large retail client who had a lot of turn-over and was looking for ways to "stabilize" hiring. (Short of paying more money,

When I worked in consulting we had a large retail client who had a lot of turn-over and was looking for ways to "stabilize" hiring. (Short of paying more money, of course!) When we looked into it their system was regularly over-scheduling shifts "just in case" there was a rush and then having store managers "cut" shifts if there wasn't a rush. There aren't a lot of surprise "rush" shifts in shopping malls outside of the holiday season so sometimes employees would come in, work an hour of a scheduled eight hour shift, and then get cut. The cuts tended to happen by "seniority" (so newest hires, paid the least) and a decent number of these employees who were frequently cut were traveling at least an hour by public transportation. Some days employees lost money by going to work. We were thrilled by what we'd found! It would be a quick and easy fix for the client: they had solid and reliable sales forecasts for each location so estimating the number of employees they'd need on a given day wasn't going to be difficult. In fact, they were more or less already doing it. It would hardly cost them anything to implement aside from a few tweaks to the corporate scheduling tool and a bit of training for the store managers. So when management immediately shot down our proposed solution it came as a bit of shock. The erratic scheduling and the "cut" shifts were a feature, not a bug, we were told. It kept employees from getting a second job that they might dare prioritize over their current job.

Hamuko 4y ago
>large retail client who had a lot of turn-over and was looking for ways to "stabilize" hiring >It kept employees from getting a second job that they might dare prioritize over their current job. I mean, clearly it fucking didn't.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cafard 4y ago
Wow.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  This is the reality now for many working class people in the US, and has been for some time. They end up working two part time jobs with constant scheduling conflicts, and god help you if you have childcare needs as well. It's very consciously and deliberately designed to minimize both employee costs and their bargaining power. I mean we have freaking companies demanding non compete agreements to work in fast food. But god forbid you raise the point that perhaps we need a political shift that removes some power from corporations and restores it to labor, you get painted as socialized nazi commie scum or whatever. It's so insane and frustrating just how good a lock these businesses have on the situation (Don't even get me started on Walmart et all).
  - weaksauce 4y ago
    > But god forbid you raise the point that perhaps we need a political shift that removes some power from corporations and restores it to labor, you get painted as socialized nazi commie scum or whatever. It's so insane and frustrating just how good a lock these businesses have on the situation (Don't even get me started on Walmart et all). To rational people this should be a no brainer. turns out a lot of people are not rational. the current system is not tenable in my opinion.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  The comment is absolutely correct. Small, locally owned, franchises, and family businesses do it too. Back in 2015 or 2016, I sat at a lunch with the leaders of a business advocacy organization, and they were livid that Obama raised the statutory minimum salary to $45k or whatever it was, and how they could no longer pay an immigrant “manager” to work 80+ hour weeks for $31k. The kicker? They were children of immigrants that did the same, except their parents were lucky to have immigrated back when buying a business/land was much cheaper. Land prices are now far higher for the newer immigrants to ever be able to save enough to get in on the ownership side of the business.
FredPret 4y ago
Lordy. They deserve their problems.
b112 4y ago
In Ontaro, minimum pay is 3 hours, for just this reason. http://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/minimum-wage#section-3 http://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standar...
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  except for students! But transportation is federally regulated, so rules for airports would be different.
  - b112 4y ago
    Yes, but to be clear, that's under 18... just in case someone thought university students...
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      Looks like the exception for students is no longer a thing: > As of January 1, 2019 the three-hour rule applies to students (including students over 18 years of age except if the student works: > at a children’s camp, unless the student is also a wilderness guide > providing instruction to or supervising children, unless the student is also a wilderness guide > in a recreational program run by a charity, unless the student is also a wilderness guide. I can’t tell why wilderness guides in particular are so special
      - b112 4y ago
        I can’t tell why wilderness guides in particular are so special To start, as a backgrounder, for centuries, wilderness guides have held a special place in Canadian society. They have been revered, trusted, even give special authority and powers, which even traditional law enforcement do not possess. In as they are so trusted, discussion, conversation about their powers and capabilities have been purged from all archives. Conversation with outsiders is typically prohibited. Yet CSEC, the RCMP, and others will surely not pay attention to so old a thread! And it will be archived, recorded, saved for future posterity. So it is my goal to lay out much detail here, for just that purpose. I do not believe such knowledge should be kept secret, for while great good can be attributed to our guides, some are concerned that great wrong is done too. Before I start documenting this in detail, I want to reiterate that Canadians are not typically allowed to speak of guides. Often we are caught and censured for doing so! I could barely wait for time to pass, barely wait until no one was paying attention, so was my excitement at finally having interest. Why, if the RCMP knew I was speaking of this now, there'd be utter and complete hell to pay, I suspeci)S(Dxcv0f# <NO CARRIER>
turns0ut 4y ago
Growing worker insecurity has been a policy since Reagan, I’d argue. They were much more honest about it back in the day[1]. Now it’s just how society works to all the younger folk. They want to hand their kids the keys via no inheritance tax and recreate a top down monarchy. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/27/business/job-insecurity-of-workers-is-a-big-factor-in-fed-policy.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/27/business/job-insecurity-o...
nerdponx 4y ago
> The erratic scheduling and the "cut" shifts were a feature, not a bug, we were told. It kept employees from getting a second job that they might dare prioritize over their current job. I always suspected that this was the reason for abusive retail scheduling. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. This should be illegal.
datavirtue 4y ago
The entire service industry is based on this manipulation.
rtkwe 4y ago
It's the kind of bullshit people got shot fighting against 100 years ago then we've slowly slid back over time to a different but still quite shitty place for workers. The labor movement in the US has unfortunately been neutered over time, maybe it'll make a come back now that it's becoming a bit more clear the US's fortune in the later 20th century might be more down to coming out of WW2 untouched rather than the glory and perfection of the US system.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  - alsetmusic 4y ago
    > why they're racist You’re mad about the right thing (the system is rigged towards money controlling everything). Your anger has been directed in the wrong direction (immigrants, et al.). This is a class issue. The affected classes are disproportionately weighted, but include everyone who isn’t at the top with working class laborers taking a significant brunt and undocumented immigrants getting massively exploited. The system is doing what it was designed to do and it’s destroying itself from within. The problem is the owners. Sowing distrust among affected groups is how they stymie class solidarity.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      > Your anger has been directed in the wrong direction (immigrants, et al.). No it's not. What gave you that idea? That I spoke a simple truth? I never said it is immigrants who are a problem or who I hate, it's the ruling class. You are exactly the person I'm talking about -- calling me racist for daring to even discuss it. Well, not you actually, but the people who have convinced you that most of the working class are hordes of racist nazi white supremacists. I'm sure you mean well.

Hamuko 4y ago

>large retail client who had a lot of turn-over and was looking for ways to "stabilize" hiring >It kept employees from getting a second job that they might dare prioritize over their current job. I mean, clearly it fucking didn't.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

cafard 4y ago

Wow.

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
This is the reality now for many working class people in the US, and has been for some time. They end up working two part time jobs with constant scheduling conflicts, and god help you if you have childcare needs as well. It's very consciously and deliberately designed to minimize both employee costs and their bargaining power. I mean we have freaking companies demanding non compete agreements to work in fast food. But god forbid you raise the point that perhaps we need a political shift that removes some power from corporations and restores it to labor, you get painted as socialized nazi commie scum or whatever. It's so insane and frustrating just how good a lock these businesses have on the situation (Don't even get me started on Walmart et all).
- weaksauce 4y ago
  > But god forbid you raise the point that perhaps we need a political shift that removes some power from corporations and restores it to labor, you get painted as socialized nazi commie scum or whatever. It's so insane and frustrating just how good a lock these businesses have on the situation (Don't even get me started on Walmart et all). To rational people this should be a no brainer. turns out a lot of people are not rational. the current system is not tenable in my opinion.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
The comment is absolutely correct. Small, locally owned, franchises, and family businesses do it too. Back in 2015 or 2016, I sat at a lunch with the leaders of a business advocacy organization, and they were livid that Obama raised the statutory minimum salary to $45k or whatever it was, and how they could no longer pay an immigrant “manager” to work 80+ hour weeks for $31k. The kicker? They were children of immigrants that did the same, except their parents were lucky to have immigrated back when buying a business/land was much cheaper. Land prices are now far higher for the newer immigrants to ever be able to save enough to get in on the ownership side of the business.

FredPret 4y ago

Lordy. They deserve their problems.

b112 4y ago

In Ontaro, minimum pay is 3 hours, for just this reason. http://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/minimum-wage#section-3 http://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standar...

Scoundreller 4y ago
except for students! But transportation is federally regulated, so rules for airports would be different.
- b112 4y ago
  Yes, but to be clear, that's under 18... just in case someone thought university students...
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Looks like the exception for students is no longer a thing: > As of January 1, 2019 the three-hour rule applies to students (including students over 18 years of age except if the student works: > at a children’s camp, unless the student is also a wilderness guide > providing instruction to or supervising children, unless the student is also a wilderness guide > in a recreational program run by a charity, unless the student is also a wilderness guide. I can’t tell why wilderness guides in particular are so special
    - b112 4y ago
      I can’t tell why wilderness guides in particular are so special To start, as a backgrounder, for centuries, wilderness guides have held a special place in Canadian society. They have been revered, trusted, even give special authority and powers, which even traditional law enforcement do not possess. In as they are so trusted, discussion, conversation about their powers and capabilities have been purged from all archives. Conversation with outsiders is typically prohibited. Yet CSEC, the RCMP, and others will surely not pay attention to so old a thread! And it will be archived, recorded, saved for future posterity. So it is my goal to lay out much detail here, for just that purpose. I do not believe such knowledge should be kept secret, for while great good can be attributed to our guides, some are concerned that great wrong is done too. Before I start documenting this in detail, I want to reiterate that Canadians are not typically allowed to speak of guides. Often we are caught and censured for doing so! I could barely wait for time to pass, barely wait until no one was paying attention, so was my excitement at finally having interest. Why, if the RCMP knew I was speaking of this now, there'd be utter and complete hell to pay, I suspeci)S(Dxcv0f# <NO CARRIER>

turns0ut 4y ago

Growing worker insecurity has been a policy since Reagan, I’d argue. They were much more honest about it back in the day[1]. Now it’s just how society works to all the younger folk. They want to hand their kids the keys via no inheritance tax and recreate a top down monarchy. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/27/business/job-insecurity-of-workers-is-a-big-factor-in-fed-policy.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/27/business/job-insecurity-o...

nerdponx 4y ago

> The erratic scheduling and the "cut" shifts were a feature, not a bug, we were told. It kept employees from getting a second job that they might dare prioritize over their current job. I always suspected that this was the reason for abusive retail scheduling. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. This should be illegal.

datavirtue 4y ago

The entire service industry is based on this manipulation.

rtkwe 4y ago

It's the kind of bullshit people got shot fighting against 100 years ago then we've slowly slid back over time to a different but still quite shitty place for workers. The labor movement in the US has unfortunately been neutered over time, maybe it'll make a come back now that it's becoming a bit more clear the US's fortune in the later 20th century might be more down to coming out of WW2 untouched rather than the glory and perfection of the US system.

throwawaylinux 4y ago
- alsetmusic 4y ago
  > why they're racist You’re mad about the right thing (the system is rigged towards money controlling everything). Your anger has been directed in the wrong direction (immigrants, et al.). This is a class issue. The affected classes are disproportionately weighted, but include everyone who isn’t at the top with working class laborers taking a significant brunt and undocumented immigrants getting massively exploited. The system is doing what it was designed to do and it’s destroying itself from within. The problem is the owners. Sowing distrust among affected groups is how they stymie class solidarity.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    > Your anger has been directed in the wrong direction (immigrants, et al.). No it's not. What gave you that idea? That I spoke a simple truth? I never said it is immigrants who are a problem or who I hate, it's the ruling class. You are exactly the person I'm talking about -- calling me racist for daring to even discuss it. Well, not you actually, but the people who have convinced you that most of the working class are hordes of racist nazi white supremacists. I'm sure you mean well.