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This is unfortunate, IMHO. DSLR's are (far) superior in terms of battery life. This was inevitable, of course. It is similar to the transition from dumb phone t

This is unfortunate, IMHO. DSLR's are (far) superior in terms of battery life. This was inevitable, of course. It is similar to the transition from dumb phone to smart phones (which, interestingly, had a similar tradeoff!)

cultofmetatron 4y ago
I have 4 batteries at all times. two are official nikon ones. I've never gone past two. maybe if you're spending several days out in the middle of nowhere it makes a difference but a single battery is sufficient for most people that aren't shooting video.
PaulHoule 4y ago
Specifically when you are setting up your shot with the DSLR you are looking at a ground-glass screen and the sensor and screen can be turned off. For a mirrorless camera the sensor and screen are on when you are setting up. The flip side is that a mirrorless camera makes a great video camera with some caveats. For instance if you want to do a shot that smoothly zooms in or out you have a rocker control on a real video camera that you can hold steadily and it does just that. I can't do the same with a mirrorless lens because I can't turn the zoom ring on a lens very smoothly.
- radlad 4y ago
  I'm confused by this - many mirrorless lenses setup for video work have a zoom switch rather than a zoom ring. An electronic motor ensures smooth zoom. Furthermore, why are you unable to hold a mirrorless camera as steadily? Something like the Peak Design Clutch strap ought to remedy that I would think? Not to mention cameras like the X-T4 have quite good IBIS built-in to steady out the shot a bit.
klodolph 4y ago
This is the same complaint people had about, e.g., film cameras, and before that, electronically controlled shutters. Very few people are willing to live will all those sacrifices just to get better battery life from an older generation of camera. History repeats itself.
- arbitrage 4y ago
  Fortunately, there are two product lines with lots of overlap and unique qualifications that the vast majority of individuals can choose from and be happy with. Nobody is forced to make a sacrifice they don't want to. This is a complete win/win for the consumer.
  - klodolph 4y ago
    For now. DSLR sales have been declining since 2012. It's just a matter of time--it's not like Nikon still manufactures film SLRs, for example.
_ph_ 4y ago
Yes, battery life takes some hit, but is it really relevant in practical situations, especially with the availability of USB-C power banks?
- klodolph 4y ago
  High-end cameras have removable batteries. Instead of using a power bank, you'd normally pop the battery out and swap in a charged one. This is assuming that you're taking pictures for a living.
  - _ph_ 4y ago
    Well, yes. Basically all mirrorless cameras have removable batteries. And changing them is obviously the direct way of keeping your camera operating continuously. But the one situation in which I can assume you would notice the difference in battery consumption is, if you are waiting for hours in a single spot to shoot rare wild life. This is where you might be watching for hours without taking any shots. But in these situation, you could add external power supply to not even have to exchange batteries.
    - eropple 4y ago
      Yeah, external power is the play. On current-gen cameras, you can run with USB-PD. I have a 256000mAh Anker bank and you can shoot 4K60 for a very, very long time on a Panasonic GH6. M43 isn't the best wildlife body, but I have to assume you can get some pretty staggering runtimes in idle on something full-frame.
      - _ph_ 4y ago
        Why would you say that µFT isn't the best wildlife body? There the long range lenses shine (do I need to say 150-400/4.5?). Also wildlife often means hiking through the wild, where µFT also has big advantages.
        eropple 4y ago
agloeregrets 4y ago
Yes and no. Battery life is much worse but when you go all in on next gen Mirrorless cameras there are gains that are just impossible otherwise in a DSLR. The thing that convinced me was using an A7RII 5 years ago in NYC at night. The simple fact of the matter was that the camera could focus and validate setup in the dark better than my own eye with my personal Canon DSLR, even with the wide open nifty 50. I think we are on the edge of major innovations in camera tech. The size advantage makes it easier to carry more batteries as well. Really the biggest thing is that Nikon is just brutally behind in tech compared to Sony and even Canon. The market has moved past DSLRs. Sony showed up and showed how to do it and that was it.
- mnholt 4y ago
  > Really the biggest thing is that Nikon is just brutally behind in tech compared to Sony and even Canon. I don't see how that is true in the slightest. The Z9 is a true flagship that stacks up well against the competition. Cameras lower down on the segment stack can also hold their own, albeit some would argue the autofocus is lacking. Autofocus is just one piece of the tech in a camera.
  - lovehashbrowns 4y ago
    Almost went for the Z9 myself but a lot of people were complaining about the autofocus. Supposed to be a firmware update for the autofocus soon, if it hasn’t already been released. Anybody working with it that can talk about the improvements to the AF since the release?
    - PicardsFlute 4y ago
      I think you were getting trolled. The auto focus from day one has been excellent and has only gotten better as they have been releasing updates. I own one and don't really care to take part in forum mudslinging, but I would seriously question anyone who thinks that the autofocus is anything but good (for MILC).
    - rhines 4y ago
gsliepen 4y ago
But that's almost the only thing they are superior in. Mirrorless cameras have ways to mitigate the problem somewhat, for example by having sensors to detect if your eye is actually looking through the viewfinder, and if not they will turn it off, saving battery. Mirrorless has several advantages: no more mismatch between the focus sensor and the CMOS sensor, no more mirror lag, viewable area matches CMOS sensor area perfectly, electronic viewfinder can show the image as it would be after exposure (making over/underexposed areas easy to spot while composing the shot), and most importantly it allows for much more compact lens designs because the last optical element can be much closer to the sensor since there is no mirror in the way. Viewfinder lag has not been an issue anymore since 10 years ago. And with recent CMOS sensors having phase-diversity elements, autofocus can be as fast as with DLSRs.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  I was shopping for lenses the other day for my Sony and what stood out is a lot of lenses that are very small such as the Sony FE 35mm f/1.8 SEL35F18F that make for a very light kit combined with a mirrorless camera that is itself much lighter than a DSLR. I got the opposite kind of lens, one at the upper end of what you can wrangle in your hands. If your lens is big you have a heavy pack, look like a dork, can't hold it steady, all that. There is a lot to say for a camera that is easy to handle.
  - Youden 4y ago
    The body can make a substantial difference but if you're using big lenses on your DSLR, you're probably going to be using big lenses on your mirrorless too. The weight of the lens is down to the optics and build rather than the mount. For me, the weight of the lenses is by far the bigger problem. To take your SEL35F18F as an example, the lens weighs 280g. The Nikon DSLR equivalent, "AF-S NIKKOR 35mm f/1.8G ED", weighs 300g. To go to extremes, Sony's SEL600F40GM weighs 3kg and so does Canon's "EF 600mm f/4L IS III USM" (admittedly, Nikon's equivalent weighs 4kg). I'm not saying this to prove you "wrong" or anything, a Sony A7RIV weighs 665g to a Nikon D850's 1kg or a Canon 1DX Mk3's 1.4kg but switching to Sony might just be the difference between a 5kg kit and a 4.7kg kit: it's still pretty heavy. I'm just pointing this out because when I was starting out I heard a lot of people talking about how small and light mirrorless cameras were. I think at the time this idea was focused more on cameras like the Olympus OM-D series. Amateurs/enthusiasts (including myself, who owned an OM-D) often didn't realise that one of the major reasons an OM-D kit was much lighter than a DSLR kit was that it was optically less capable due to the differences in sensor size. A big part of the reason an 17mm f1.8 MFT lens is so small is that it isn't equivalent to a full-frame 35mm f1.8 the way many people thought it was. It's more accurately equivalent to a 35mm f3.5 which could be made similarly light for the larger sensor, if anybody wanted that (but few people want that).
jeffbee 4y ago
The battery in my AE-1 lasted about 25 years. Battery life has been totally downhill from there.

cultofmetatron 4y ago

I have 4 batteries at all times. two are official nikon ones. I've never gone past two. maybe if you're spending several days out in the middle of nowhere it makes a difference but a single battery is sufficient for most people that aren't shooting video.

PaulHoule 4y ago

Specifically when you are setting up your shot with the DSLR you are looking at a ground-glass screen and the sensor and screen can be turned off. For a mirrorless camera the sensor and screen are on when you are setting up. The flip side is that a mirrorless camera makes a great video camera with some caveats. For instance if you want to do a shot that smoothly zooms in or out you have a rocker control on a real video camera that you can hold steadily and it does just that. I can't do the same with a mirrorless lens because I can't turn the zoom ring on a lens very smoothly.

radlad 4y ago
I'm confused by this - many mirrorless lenses setup for video work have a zoom switch rather than a zoom ring. An electronic motor ensures smooth zoom. Furthermore, why are you unable to hold a mirrorless camera as steadily? Something like the Peak Design Clutch strap ought to remedy that I would think? Not to mention cameras like the X-T4 have quite good IBIS built-in to steady out the shot a bit.

klodolph 4y ago

This is the same complaint people had about, e.g., film cameras, and before that, electronically controlled shutters. Very few people are willing to live will all those sacrifices just to get better battery life from an older generation of camera. History repeats itself.

arbitrage 4y ago
Fortunately, there are two product lines with lots of overlap and unique qualifications that the vast majority of individuals can choose from and be happy with. Nobody is forced to make a sacrifice they don't want to. This is a complete win/win for the consumer.
- klodolph 4y ago
  For now. DSLR sales have been declining since 2012. It's just a matter of time--it's not like Nikon still manufactures film SLRs, for example.

_ph_ 4y ago

Yes, battery life takes some hit, but is it really relevant in practical situations, especially with the availability of USB-C power banks?

klodolph 4y ago
High-end cameras have removable batteries. Instead of using a power bank, you'd normally pop the battery out and swap in a charged one. This is assuming that you're taking pictures for a living.
- _ph_ 4y ago
  Well, yes. Basically all mirrorless cameras have removable batteries. And changing them is obviously the direct way of keeping your camera operating continuously. But the one situation in which I can assume you would notice the difference in battery consumption is, if you are waiting for hours in a single spot to shoot rare wild life. This is where you might be watching for hours without taking any shots. But in these situation, you could add external power supply to not even have to exchange batteries.
  - eropple 4y ago
    Yeah, external power is the play. On current-gen cameras, you can run with USB-PD. I have a 256000mAh Anker bank and you can shoot 4K60 for a very, very long time on a Panasonic GH6. M43 isn't the best wildlife body, but I have to assume you can get some pretty staggering runtimes in idle on something full-frame.
    - _ph_ 4y ago
      Why would you say that µFT isn't the best wildlife body? There the long range lenses shine (do I need to say 150-400/4.5?). Also wildlife often means hiking through the wild, where µFT also has big advantages.
      - eropple 4y ago

agloeregrets 4y ago

Yes and no. Battery life is much worse but when you go all in on next gen Mirrorless cameras there are gains that are just impossible otherwise in a DSLR. The thing that convinced me was using an A7RII 5 years ago in NYC at night. The simple fact of the matter was that the camera could focus and validate setup in the dark better than my own eye with my personal Canon DSLR, even with the wide open nifty 50. I think we are on the edge of major innovations in camera tech. The size advantage makes it easier to carry more batteries as well. Really the biggest thing is that Nikon is just brutally behind in tech compared to Sony and even Canon. The market has moved past DSLRs. Sony showed up and showed how to do it and that was it.

mnholt 4y ago
> Really the biggest thing is that Nikon is just brutally behind in tech compared to Sony and even Canon. I don't see how that is true in the slightest. The Z9 is a true flagship that stacks up well against the competition. Cameras lower down on the segment stack can also hold their own, albeit some would argue the autofocus is lacking. Autofocus is just one piece of the tech in a camera.
- lovehashbrowns 4y ago
  Almost went for the Z9 myself but a lot of people were complaining about the autofocus. Supposed to be a firmware update for the autofocus soon, if it hasn’t already been released. Anybody working with it that can talk about the improvements to the AF since the release?
  - PicardsFlute 4y ago
    I think you were getting trolled. The auto focus from day one has been excellent and has only gotten better as they have been releasing updates. I own one and don't really care to take part in forum mudslinging, but I would seriously question anyone who thinks that the autofocus is anything but good (for MILC).
  - rhines 4y ago

gsliepen 4y ago

But that's almost the only thing they are superior in. Mirrorless cameras have ways to mitigate the problem somewhat, for example by having sensors to detect if your eye is actually looking through the viewfinder, and if not they will turn it off, saving battery. Mirrorless has several advantages: no more mismatch between the focus sensor and the CMOS sensor, no more mirror lag, viewable area matches CMOS sensor area perfectly, electronic viewfinder can show the image as it would be after exposure (making over/underexposed areas easy to spot while composing the shot), and most importantly it allows for much more compact lens designs because the last optical element can be much closer to the sensor since there is no mirror in the way. Viewfinder lag has not been an issue anymore since 10 years ago. And with recent CMOS sensors having phase-diversity elements, autofocus can be as fast as with DLSRs.

PaulHoule 4y ago
I was shopping for lenses the other day for my Sony and what stood out is a lot of lenses that are very small such as the Sony FE 35mm f/1.8 SEL35F18F that make for a very light kit combined with a mirrorless camera that is itself much lighter than a DSLR. I got the opposite kind of lens, one at the upper end of what you can wrangle in your hands. If your lens is big you have a heavy pack, look like a dork, can't hold it steady, all that. There is a lot to say for a camera that is easy to handle.
- Youden 4y ago
  The body can make a substantial difference but if you're using big lenses on your DSLR, you're probably going to be using big lenses on your mirrorless too. The weight of the lens is down to the optics and build rather than the mount. For me, the weight of the lenses is by far the bigger problem. To take your SEL35F18F as an example, the lens weighs 280g. The Nikon DSLR equivalent, "AF-S NIKKOR 35mm f/1.8G ED", weighs 300g. To go to extremes, Sony's SEL600F40GM weighs 3kg and so does Canon's "EF 600mm f/4L IS III USM" (admittedly, Nikon's equivalent weighs 4kg). I'm not saying this to prove you "wrong" or anything, a Sony A7RIV weighs 665g to a Nikon D850's 1kg or a Canon 1DX Mk3's 1.4kg but switching to Sony might just be the difference between a 5kg kit and a 4.7kg kit: it's still pretty heavy. I'm just pointing this out because when I was starting out I heard a lot of people talking about how small and light mirrorless cameras were. I think at the time this idea was focused more on cameras like the Olympus OM-D series. Amateurs/enthusiasts (including myself, who owned an OM-D) often didn't realise that one of the major reasons an OM-D kit was much lighter than a DSLR kit was that it was optically less capable due to the differences in sensor size. A big part of the reason an 17mm f1.8 MFT lens is so small is that it isn't equivalent to a full-frame 35mm f1.8 the way many people thought it was. It's more accurately equivalent to a 35mm f3.5 which could be made similarly light for the larger sensor, if anybody wanted that (but few people want that).

jeffbee 4y ago

The battery in my AE-1 lasted about 25 years. Battery life has been totally downhill from there.