15 ms·

I seriously hope this doesn't catch on. For cars with internal combustion engines, the company tends to get constant income via service thanks oil filters, oth

by 2143 4y ago

I seriously hope this doesn't catch on. For cars with internal combustion engines, the company tends to get constant income via service thanks oil filters, other filters, and a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be replaced (assuming people take it to authorised service centers, which I assume most people do when the car is relatively new). With the transition to EV, those avenues dry up because EVs need lesser maintenance (as per my understanding). So, are they trying to create new recurring income sources due to the possibility of existing such incomes drying up?

EveYoung 4y ago
Isn't this just a new way to pay for already existing options? Instead of paying the full cost in advance, you can spread it over the product's lifetime, and once the car gets resold, the new buyer can "configure" it as they prefer.
- benj111 4y ago
  How much are you suggesting heated seats cost? What would an average owner pay over the lifetime of the vehicle?
  - kabes 4y ago
    $406 for pemanent activation. It's right there in the article...
- 2143 4y ago
  That's assuming manufacturers wouldn't already include the price of rentable hardware in the cost of the car. Would any manufacturers do that? Why would a manufacturer fit in hardware for heated seats into a car, and not charge you for it? Because they hope you will subscribe to the heated seats? This argument breaks down in markets like India, middle East, Malaysia etc where it's hot and humid, and nobody would want to use heated seats. If you don't subscribe, then it'll be a loss for the manufacturers who included the hardware and not charged you for it. Of course, the sane thing would be to not offer heated seats at all in such markets, but as things stand today, heated seats are offered in these hot places (and nobody uses them AFAIK). In the subscription-based future, here's how I think it'll be like: - heated-seat hardware will be present in the car - heated seats will be a rentable option - manufacturers would include the price for it anyway in the cost of the car => customers lose Cars are expensive as it is, so manufacturers can totally get away with it.
  - anakaine 4y ago
    And as soon as that car hits the second hand market, the next owner can find the appropriate relay, tap in a switch, and solve the rent to use problem.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      "Irregular power draw detected, shutting down for your safety."
      - inkeddeveloper 4y ago
        So true
      - ehnto 4y ago
        While obviously a big pain in the butt, aftermarket EV computers are coming onto the market which could help solve the long tail of used EV software related nuisances. Lots of learning from the EV conversion market will go directly into that ecosystem too I feel. But that said, I'm pretty sure that it's already illegal in many countries to tamper with the ECU. It's currently because you can change the emissions profile of the car, but I'm sure they'll just swap to saying it's about safety instead for EVs.
      - rightbyte 4y ago
        Ye you maybe need to put the wires directly on the battery poles.
      - neuralRiot 4y ago
        “Site:aliexxpress.com bmw heated seat unlocker”
        pxmpxm 4y ago
        ha, accurate
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
- gaze 4y ago
  This isn't how things are priced. They ask what they can get. If they could ask for more money for the car, why wouldn't they?
t0mas88 4y ago
I think people over-estimate that because most EVs are very new. Of course this is n=1 type data, but the service cost on engine related things for my several years old BMW are quite low compared to other items. They replace the oil once the computer wants it, which is every 30,000 to 40,000km, so less than once a year for most users. And that's all engine costs I've had over the years. But I do have maintenance costs associated with this type of car. It's more things like replacing tires at least once a year (which I think high torque EVs will do even faster), then at about 100k miles they replaced the wishbones / control arms. Those things get more expensive on high-end cars with things like software damper control, larger rims etc, all of which Tesla (just picking an EV) also has.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >I think people over-estimate that because most EVs are very new And they're expensive. So the people who can afford them were already the kind of people driving well kept newish stuff so all they got to experience were recalls and the early part of the bathtub curve. Parts on a car more or less wind up needing to be serviced more or less in direct correlation to hose close to the road they are. But if you're trading in every ~5yr your experience you won't see that because your experience will all be the early failures part of the bathtub curve. Basically everyone doing all the talking right now doesn't know what they don't know.
- alldayeveryday 4y ago
  > It's more things like replacing tires at least once a year (which I think high torque EVs will do even faster), then at about 100k miles they replaced the wishbones / control arms. I've not heard of tires that need replacing once a year, unless you are doing an insane amount of driving. Tires are generally lasting 50k, 60k, even 85k miles. Can you elaborate on the scenarios that require yearly tire replacements?
  - 2143 4y ago
    > Tires are generally lasting 50k, 60k, even 85k miles. Probably depends on road conditions. Where I'm at good tyres — my criteria being soft ride, good grip, low noise — last at most 40k km. But then the roads here aren't exactly the best. Not just tyres, even things like oil, filters, engine mounts etc need to be changed more frequently where I'm at, compared to Western countries.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Renting stuff is economically efficient as long as you don't let the actual owners abuse the relationship to their benefit. We've not had a good track record of that in the past, but still worth keeping in mind as a general principle.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  So I'm going to jump on you here because this line is wrong, in this case. > Renting stuff is economically efficient as long as you don't let the actual owners abuse the relationship to their benefit. Renting is economically efficient when there is a limited supply of the item, and renting allows the item to be used more often & efficiently then it would with if it were owned. A simple example: It is much more efficient to have a single lawn-mower that you and your neighbors can rent, rather than having every lawn owner buy a mower that sits unused 99% of the time. It is cheaper to rent than buy so the folks save money on mower expense, less waste is produced because there are fewer mowers, and the item sits idle far less. The downside is the coordination required to use the rented item - it may not always be available, or available when any given person would like it to be. NONE OF THAT FUCKING MATTERS WHEN THE ITEM IN QUESTION IS HEATED SEATS!!!! No one is able to use those "rented" heated seats when you're not using them. They will never be taken out of the car. There is literally no way to more efficiently allocate this item when rented rather than bought, unless the entire car is rented (in which case... moot point). So this case cannot be anything other than abuse by owners. There are no efficiency savings to be had. The item won't be allocated more efficiently, it will just provide additional revenue. Essentially - the argument that renting is more efficient UTTERLY fails when the item being rented is essentially the on/off switch to a thing built into an item you own. It's ALWAYS going to stay part of the item you own, and there is no way to re-allocate it when you are not renting it. This is a scummy, scummy move. It should be illegal.
  - shard 4y ago
    I think the assumption in the case you are presenting is that efficiency is viewed from the POV of the use of resources aggregated over the whole society. There are other POVs, such as it being more cost or production speed or resource or factory floor space efficient for BMW or their suppliers to maintain one product line as opposed to two, or it being more cost efficient for owners to have the option to turn on the feature temporarily or permanently as opposed to having to have the feature installed afterwards (which may depend on the percentage of owners who turn on the feature). I think an analogy could be a software package which have some subscription features. The features are already contained in the software, but paying for the subscription would turn it on, and stopping the subscription would turn it off. Regardless of whether you are subscribed or not, it's taking up storage space, although I suppose the low cost of storage makes a difference in degree (but not in kind).
woofyman 4y ago
In 15 years, I’ve only been to the dealer for recalls.
- RamRodification 4y ago
  How does that affect second-hand value for you (if you intend to ever sell)? Where I live, a lack of documentation from official or authorized dealership servicing is a big red flag when buying a used car.
  - wil421 4y ago
    I find that hard to believe unless it’s an antique or a sports car. It’s certainly a plus when you sell something. 2 Jeep dealers couldn’t tell me what needs to be done on my 35k checkup. It’s right in the manual. They only tried to upsell fluid flushes. The multipoint inspection didn’t even cover the cv joint checks that were mentioned in the manual!
  - woofyman 4y ago
    I’ll drive it until the wheels fall off. It absolutely doesn’t affect the value of the car to use 3rd party service.
  - nameless912 4y ago
    In the US, almost no one goes to their dealership for routine maintenance (i.e. tires, brakes, oil). Many/most will go in for bigger stuff like transmission service, steering, etc. but even then many still opt for their local mechanic's shop. To be honest, I would rather see a car going to reputable local shop than to a dealership, but it's really hard to know what "reputable local shop" means when you're buying a used car that could have been serviced four states away. We have lots of garbage chains of auto shops (looking at you, JiffyLube...) that leave cars in worse shape than when they came in, which complicates matters immensely. I've had one car for example that has had the front engine cover come off twice because the knuckleheads at the shop didn't reattach it correctly, causing it to drag on the road for miles before we realized what was wrong. (inb4 someone rolls in with how blockchain is going to "fix" this)
KoftaBob 4y ago
> the company tends to get constant income via service thanks oil filters, other filters, and a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be replaced (assuming people take it to authorised service centers, which I assume most people do when the car is relatively new). I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but in the US, the vast majority of official car dealerships are owned by the franchiser of that dealership, not the car company itself. This is what caused the conflicts between Tesla and certain US states who had car dealership groups lobbying to ban Tesla from owning their own dealerships/service centers. Outside of replacement parts specific to the car, like a bumper, most service income goes straight to the dealership franchiser owner, not the car company.
nradov 4y ago
Some EVs actually require more maintenance. For example, due to incompetent engineering and sloppy assembly, Tesla ranks below most ICE vehicles. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/tesla-ranks-30th-in-unofficial-debut-on-jd-power-dependability-study.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/tesla-ranks-30th-in-unoffici...
- saxonww 4y ago
  I'm not a Tesla owner or fan, but this article doesn't quite say that. It reports on the JD Power and Associates dependability ranking, which is based on surveys of owner complaints about anything with their cars; Tesla ranks higher than average in number of complaints. The only supporting quote about Tesla in the article: "Tesla owners reported more problems with their exterior and interior than with other systems like propulsion, battery or infotainment and navigation. However, some did complain about troubles with Tesla’s in-vehicle voice recognition." IMO this supports the sloppy assembly claim, but not the incompetent engineering claim. It jives with what I've heard about Tesla cars, that the fit and finish is not what you'd expect for this class of car.
- rockinghigh 4y ago
  Neither this article nor my personal experience with Tesla support your claim. > Tesla owners reported more problems with their exterior and interior than with other systems like propulsion, battery or infotainment and navigation. Tesla issues aren't about maintenance, they are mostly about quality control. Maintenance on Tesla is simple: air filters, brakes, tires, air conditioning. https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance
  - bluGill 4y ago
    ON a modern car you only add oil changes until you get to 100k miles. Oil changes are fast and cheap. Except for air conditioning - unless you mean the air filter the air conditioner should NEVER need maintenance - if you do maintenance it means an environmental disaster - they are closed systems and so the only time you service them is if they lost the Freon.
ubermonkey 4y ago
Not for nothing, but BMW realizes very little post-first-sale service dollars because they bake that into the price of the car. If you go and buy a new 3-series this afternoon, you pay for your gas and that's pretty much it. All your scheduled maintenance is included, and you may even end up with a tire plan (wise on some of these cars; Z-rated rubber is pricey, and urban areas can eat tires) so the rubber ends up "included" too.
- ynniv 4y ago
  Sadly, not anymore. In 2017 they replaced the comprehensive 4yr/50k mile "BMW Maintenance Program" with the 3yr/36k mile "BMW Ultimate Care", and it only covers fluids, filters, and spark plugs. https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-value/bmw-maintenance/terms-and-conditions.html https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-value/bmw-maintenance/ter... https://www.consumerreports.org/bmw/bmw-reduces-free-maintenance-program/ https://www.consumerreports.org/bmw/bmw-reduces-free-mainten...
- _ea1k 4y ago
  I always just assumed that program was meant to encourage tradeins after the free maintenance period ends. That kicks off the next profit cycle via a used car sale and another new car sale. Its a trap! And probably one that customers are pretty happy with.
saiya-jin 4y ago
Official service centers are a bad joke though. Especially for BMW you pay 2.5x the work of other, good service (tested this on oil change, liquids were the same). Then they also screw you on parts prices. Suffice to say I never went there again. I never saw the reason to buy new cars which drop value tremendously in first 5 years, I am certainly not that rich to not mind. I rather buy 6-7 years old, BMW in this case, do maintenance in good unofficial garage and drive the car to the ground. If you find one, stick with it till you die. First car (BMW E46 3-series) bought for 25% price of new, maintenance costs rather minimal, drove it for 10 years till clutch/transmission literally died. Now we have again BMW (5-series F10 wagon), bought for 20% of the new, 6 years/90k km old. Obviously no clue how it will behave in future, but we paid 80k less for really premium safe family car, and my yearly maintenance costs have been around 500$ per year. People sometimes do stupid decisions when they are driven mainly by emotions.
elzbardico 4y ago
Other than oil and filters, which you don't need to buy from the manufacturer, most new cars don't need much engine maintanance. On the other side, suspension, brakes and tires are much more subject to wear and the need of replacement, and in a heavier car, there's a big chance that you'll need even more frequent maintainance of such itens.
more_corn 4y ago
There’s an easy way to make sure this doesn’t catch on. Never buy a car from any car company that does this. Advocate loudly for never buying a car from a company that does this. The market will speak. We are the market.
dreamcompiler 4y ago
I don't think this is the biggest reason. It's because most cars now come with always-online LTE modems and everything is software-controlled. Couple that with a product VP who wants to make his bones and you get "turn everything into a continuing revenue stream." Doesn't matter whether the car is electric or ICE. IOW, they're doing it because they can. The solutions are: 1. Don't buy these cars. 2. Hack the software and share that knowledge. 3. Install a 50-cent switch to apply power to the seat heaters directly. 4. Disable the goddamned modem and share that knowledge too.
nikonyrh 4y ago

by 2143 4y ago

EveYoung 4y ago

Isn't this just a new way to pay for already existing options? Instead of paying the full cost in advance, you can spread it over the product's lifetime, and once the car gets resold, the new buyer can "configure" it as they prefer.

benj111 4y ago
How much are you suggesting heated seats cost? What would an average owner pay over the lifetime of the vehicle?
- kabes 4y ago
  $406 for pemanent activation. It's right there in the article...
2143 4y ago
That's assuming manufacturers wouldn't already include the price of rentable hardware in the cost of the car. Would any manufacturers do that? Why would a manufacturer fit in hardware for heated seats into a car, and not charge you for it? Because they hope you will subscribe to the heated seats? This argument breaks down in markets like India, middle East, Malaysia etc where it's hot and humid, and nobody would want to use heated seats. If you don't subscribe, then it'll be a loss for the manufacturers who included the hardware and not charged you for it. Of course, the sane thing would be to not offer heated seats at all in such markets, but as things stand today, heated seats are offered in these hot places (and nobody uses them AFAIK). In the subscription-based future, here's how I think it'll be like: - heated-seat hardware will be present in the car - heated seats will be a rentable option - manufacturers would include the price for it anyway in the cost of the car => customers lose Cars are expensive as it is, so manufacturers can totally get away with it.
- anakaine 4y ago
  And as soon as that car hits the second hand market, the next owner can find the appropriate relay, tap in a switch, and solve the rent to use problem.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    "Irregular power draw detected, shutting down for your safety."
    - inkeddeveloper 4y ago
      So true
    - ehnto 4y ago
      While obviously a big pain in the butt, aftermarket EV computers are coming onto the market which could help solve the long tail of used EV software related nuisances. Lots of learning from the EV conversion market will go directly into that ecosystem too I feel. But that said, I'm pretty sure that it's already illegal in many countries to tamper with the ECU. It's currently because you can change the emissions profile of the car, but I'm sure they'll just swap to saying it's about safety instead for EVs.
    - rightbyte 4y ago
      Ye you maybe need to put the wires directly on the battery poles.
    - neuralRiot 4y ago
      “Site:aliexxpress.com bmw heated seat unlocker”
      - pxmpxm 4y ago
        ha, accurate
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
gaze 4y ago
This isn't how things are priced. They ask what they can get. If they could ask for more money for the car, why wouldn't they?

t0mas88 4y ago

I think people over-estimate that because most EVs are very new. Of course this is n=1 type data, but the service cost on engine related things for my several years old BMW are quite low compared to other items. They replace the oil once the computer wants it, which is every 30,000 to 40,000km, so less than once a year for most users. And that's all engine costs I've had over the years. But I do have maintenance costs associated with this type of car. It's more things like replacing tires at least once a year (which I think high torque EVs will do even faster), then at about 100k miles they replaced the wishbones / control arms. Those things get more expensive on high-end cars with things like software damper control, larger rims etc, all of which Tesla (just picking an EV) also has.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>I think people over-estimate that because most EVs are very new And they're expensive. So the people who can afford them were already the kind of people driving well kept newish stuff so all they got to experience were recalls and the early part of the bathtub curve. Parts on a car more or less wind up needing to be serviced more or less in direct correlation to hose close to the road they are. But if you're trading in every ~5yr your experience you won't see that because your experience will all be the early failures part of the bathtub curve. Basically everyone doing all the talking right now doesn't know what they don't know.
alldayeveryday 4y ago
> It's more things like replacing tires at least once a year (which I think high torque EVs will do even faster), then at about 100k miles they replaced the wishbones / control arms. I've not heard of tires that need replacing once a year, unless you are doing an insane amount of driving. Tires are generally lasting 50k, 60k, even 85k miles. Can you elaborate on the scenarios that require yearly tire replacements?
- 2143 4y ago
  > Tires are generally lasting 50k, 60k, even 85k miles. Probably depends on road conditions. Where I'm at good tyres — my criteria being soft ride, good grip, low noise — last at most 40k km. But then the roads here aren't exactly the best. Not just tyres, even things like oil, filters, engine mounts etc need to be changed more frequently where I'm at, compared to Western countries.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

Renting stuff is economically efficient as long as you don't let the actual owners abuse the relationship to their benefit. We've not had a good track record of that in the past, but still worth keeping in mind as a general principle.

horsawlarway 4y ago
So I'm going to jump on you here because this line is wrong, in this case. > Renting stuff is economically efficient as long as you don't let the actual owners abuse the relationship to their benefit. Renting is economically efficient when there is a limited supply of the item, and renting allows the item to be used more often & efficiently then it would with if it were owned. A simple example: It is much more efficient to have a single lawn-mower that you and your neighbors can rent, rather than having every lawn owner buy a mower that sits unused 99% of the time. It is cheaper to rent than buy so the folks save money on mower expense, less waste is produced because there are fewer mowers, and the item sits idle far less. The downside is the coordination required to use the rented item - it may not always be available, or available when any given person would like it to be. NONE OF THAT FUCKING MATTERS WHEN THE ITEM IN QUESTION IS HEATED SEATS!!!! No one is able to use those "rented" heated seats when you're not using them. They will never be taken out of the car. There is literally no way to more efficiently allocate this item when rented rather than bought, unless the entire car is rented (in which case... moot point). So this case cannot be anything other than abuse by owners. There are no efficiency savings to be had. The item won't be allocated more efficiently, it will just provide additional revenue. Essentially - the argument that renting is more efficient UTTERLY fails when the item being rented is essentially the on/off switch to a thing built into an item you own. It's ALWAYS going to stay part of the item you own, and there is no way to re-allocate it when you are not renting it. This is a scummy, scummy move. It should be illegal.
- shard 4y ago
  I think the assumption in the case you are presenting is that efficiency is viewed from the POV of the use of resources aggregated over the whole society. There are other POVs, such as it being more cost or production speed or resource or factory floor space efficient for BMW or their suppliers to maintain one product line as opposed to two, or it being more cost efficient for owners to have the option to turn on the feature temporarily or permanently as opposed to having to have the feature installed afterwards (which may depend on the percentage of owners who turn on the feature). I think an analogy could be a software package which have some subscription features. The features are already contained in the software, but paying for the subscription would turn it on, and stopping the subscription would turn it off. Regardless of whether you are subscribed or not, it's taking up storage space, although I suppose the low cost of storage makes a difference in degree (but not in kind).

woofyman 4y ago

In 15 years, I’ve only been to the dealer for recalls.

RamRodification 4y ago
How does that affect second-hand value for you (if you intend to ever sell)? Where I live, a lack of documentation from official or authorized dealership servicing is a big red flag when buying a used car.
- wil421 4y ago
  I find that hard to believe unless it’s an antique or a sports car. It’s certainly a plus when you sell something. 2 Jeep dealers couldn’t tell me what needs to be done on my 35k checkup. It’s right in the manual. They only tried to upsell fluid flushes. The multipoint inspection didn’t even cover the cv joint checks that were mentioned in the manual!
- woofyman 4y ago
  I’ll drive it until the wheels fall off. It absolutely doesn’t affect the value of the car to use 3rd party service.
- nameless912 4y ago
  In the US, almost no one goes to their dealership for routine maintenance (i.e. tires, brakes, oil). Many/most will go in for bigger stuff like transmission service, steering, etc. but even then many still opt for their local mechanic's shop. To be honest, I would rather see a car going to reputable local shop than to a dealership, but it's really hard to know what "reputable local shop" means when you're buying a used car that could have been serviced four states away. We have lots of garbage chains of auto shops (looking at you, JiffyLube...) that leave cars in worse shape than when they came in, which complicates matters immensely. I've had one car for example that has had the front engine cover come off twice because the knuckleheads at the shop didn't reattach it correctly, causing it to drag on the road for miles before we realized what was wrong. (inb4 someone rolls in with how blockchain is going to "fix" this)

KoftaBob 4y ago

> the company tends to get constant income via service thanks oil filters, other filters, and a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be replaced (assuming people take it to authorised service centers, which I assume most people do when the car is relatively new). I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but in the US, the vast majority of official car dealerships are owned by the franchiser of that dealership, not the car company itself. This is what caused the conflicts between Tesla and certain US states who had car dealership groups lobbying to ban Tesla from owning their own dealerships/service centers. Outside of replacement parts specific to the car, like a bumper, most service income goes straight to the dealership franchiser owner, not the car company.

nradov 4y ago

Some EVs actually require more maintenance. For example, due to incompetent engineering and sloppy assembly, Tesla ranks below most ICE vehicles. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/tesla-ranks-30th-in-unofficial-debut-on-jd-power-dependability-study.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/tesla-ranks-30th-in-unoffici...

saxonww 4y ago
I'm not a Tesla owner or fan, but this article doesn't quite say that. It reports on the JD Power and Associates dependability ranking, which is based on surveys of owner complaints about anything with their cars; Tesla ranks higher than average in number of complaints. The only supporting quote about Tesla in the article: "Tesla owners reported more problems with their exterior and interior than with other systems like propulsion, battery or infotainment and navigation. However, some did complain about troubles with Tesla’s in-vehicle voice recognition." IMO this supports the sloppy assembly claim, but not the incompetent engineering claim. It jives with what I've heard about Tesla cars, that the fit and finish is not what you'd expect for this class of car.
rockinghigh 4y ago
Neither this article nor my personal experience with Tesla support your claim. > Tesla owners reported more problems with their exterior and interior than with other systems like propulsion, battery or infotainment and navigation. Tesla issues aren't about maintenance, they are mostly about quality control. Maintenance on Tesla is simple: air filters, brakes, tires, air conditioning. https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance
- bluGill 4y ago
  ON a modern car you only add oil changes until you get to 100k miles. Oil changes are fast and cheap. Except for air conditioning - unless you mean the air filter the air conditioner should NEVER need maintenance - if you do maintenance it means an environmental disaster - they are closed systems and so the only time you service them is if they lost the Freon.

ubermonkey 4y ago

Not for nothing, but BMW realizes very little post-first-sale service dollars because they bake that into the price of the car. If you go and buy a new 3-series this afternoon, you pay for your gas and that's pretty much it. All your scheduled maintenance is included, and you may even end up with a tire plan (wise on some of these cars; Z-rated rubber is pricey, and urban areas can eat tires) so the rubber ends up "included" too.

ynniv 4y ago
Sadly, not anymore. In 2017 they replaced the comprehensive 4yr/50k mile "BMW Maintenance Program" with the 3yr/36k mile "BMW Ultimate Care", and it only covers fluids, filters, and spark plugs. https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-value/bmw-maintenance/terms-and-conditions.html https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-value/bmw-maintenance/ter... https://www.consumerreports.org/bmw/bmw-reduces-free-maintenance-program/ https://www.consumerreports.org/bmw/bmw-reduces-free-mainten...
_ea1k 4y ago
I always just assumed that program was meant to encourage tradeins after the free maintenance period ends. That kicks off the next profit cycle via a used car sale and another new car sale. Its a trap! And probably one that customers are pretty happy with.

saiya-jin 4y ago

Official service centers are a bad joke though. Especially for BMW you pay 2.5x the work of other, good service (tested this on oil change, liquids were the same). Then they also screw you on parts prices. Suffice to say I never went there again. I never saw the reason to buy new cars which drop value tremendously in first 5 years, I am certainly not that rich to not mind. I rather buy 6-7 years old, BMW in this case, do maintenance in good unofficial garage and drive the car to the ground. If you find one, stick with it till you die. First car (BMW E46 3-series) bought for 25% price of new, maintenance costs rather minimal, drove it for 10 years till clutch/transmission literally died. Now we have again BMW (5-series F10 wagon), bought for 20% of the new, 6 years/90k km old. Obviously no clue how it will behave in future, but we paid 80k less for really premium safe family car, and my yearly maintenance costs have been around 500$ per year. People sometimes do stupid decisions when they are driven mainly by emotions.

elzbardico 4y ago

Other than oil and filters, which you don't need to buy from the manufacturer, most new cars don't need much engine maintanance. On the other side, suspension, brakes and tires are much more subject to wear and the need of replacement, and in a heavier car, there's a big chance that you'll need even more frequent maintainance of such itens.

more_corn 4y ago

There’s an easy way to make sure this doesn’t catch on. Never buy a car from any car company that does this. Advocate loudly for never buying a car from a company that does this. The market will speak. We are the market.

dreamcompiler 4y ago

I don't think this is the biggest reason. It's because most cars now come with always-online LTE modems and everything is software-controlled. Couple that with a product VP who wants to make his bones and you get "turn everything into a continuing revenue stream." Doesn't matter whether the car is electric or ICE. IOW, they're doing it because they can. The solutions are: 1. Don't buy these cars. 2. Hack the software and share that knowledge. 3. Install a 50-cent switch to apply power to the seat heaters directly. 4. Disable the goddamned modem and share that knowledge too.

nikonyrh 4y ago