7 ms·

They are refugees, not illegal immigrants at the US Border fleeing Latin American countries bulldozed by the CIA

cm2187 4y ago
When they cross the borders in Somalia they may be refugees. By the time they have crossed the borders, in and out, of 10 countries that are not at war, to land in the UK, they are economic migrants.
- danw1979 4y ago
  It’s such a bunk argument to suggest that because there are other countries physically inbeween the refugee’s homeland and Britain that they are economic migrants by the time they get here. If they all settled at the point closest to their homeland that wasn’t “at war” I’m pretty sure there would soon be conflict there. Britain is a rich, developed nation that is quite easily able to support our “fair share” of refugees along with the rest of Europe.
  - origin_path 4y ago
    Being a refugee should not be (and isn't) a blank cheque to settle in whatever part of the world you want, financially supported by the locals regardless of whether they want you there or not. If it were that would be a perverse incentive to actually try and make your own country collapse, as it'd be easier to claim "refugee" status than fix domestic issues. This is doubly true given that some people are fanatical about the issue of fully open borders regardless of downsides, and will immediately expand the definition of "refugee" to incorporate anyone at all. The concept of a "climate refugee" is already being promoted, for example. Combined with the argument you're making here it is just a cynical attempt to hijack people's good natured desire to help genuine war refugees, into jackhammering unlimited migration and open borders into society without consideration of any costs. This must not be allowed to happen as this kind of abuse will ultimately result in the collapse of support for any kind of refugee and asylum support.
    - _benedict 4y ago
      It isn’t a blank cheque, because making it to safety in a preferred country is exceptionally difficult and expensive. However, it is a blank cheque once you’ve surmounted those challenges and have arrived at the safe country you have chosen (and were able to reach), though most countries receiving such refugees are doing their best not to honour this obligation. It’s worth noting that the UK tries hard to prevent refugees reaching our shores, but the vast majority that do, and apply for asylum, are granted it [1]. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-december-2021/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statist...
      - origin_path 4y ago
        It's clearly not that difficult or expensive given the large numbers of people who manage to achieve it despite, theoretically, having no personal resources. If it were really exceptionally difficult then people wouldn't do it, as there's nothing wrong with the countries they crossed to get there.
        clort 4y ago
        I see a selection bias in your comments there. There may be numbers of people who manage to achieve it but you can't strictly say if it was difficult or not unless you compare the number of people who tried and failed. You can't say it was not expensive unless you can demonstrate that some significant proportion of those who made it did not spend much money doing so.
        _benedict 4y ago
        Being a refugee does not mean you have no resources. Would you flee your home country without taking your valuables? Would you have no friends or relatives to call upon to offer some monetary assistance, if it meant the difference between life and death? Most have few resources. The ones with more resources have more options about where they flee to.
        4y ago
- shapefrog 4y ago
  There is no rule requiring refugees to claim in the first safe country in which they arrive
- clort 4y ago
  No they do not cease to be a refugee when crossing a border, or many. That is simply a dismissive and disingenuous talking point pushed by the outrage media. They cease to be refugees when they have settled somewhere or voluntarily returned to their country of origin. See the 1951 UN Refugee Convention and the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees.
nradov 4y ago
The vast majority of illegal immigrants from Latin American countries don't meet the legal criteria to be considered refugees.

When they cross the borders in Somalia they may be refugees. By the time they have crossed the borders, in and out, of 10 countries that are not at war, to land in the UK, they are economic migrants.

danw1979 4y ago
It’s such a bunk argument to suggest that because there are other countries physically inbeween the refugee’s homeland and Britain that they are economic migrants by the time they get here. If they all settled at the point closest to their homeland that wasn’t “at war” I’m pretty sure there would soon be conflict there. Britain is a rich, developed nation that is quite easily able to support our “fair share” of refugees along with the rest of Europe.
- origin_path 4y ago
  Being a refugee should not be (and isn't) a blank cheque to settle in whatever part of the world you want, financially supported by the locals regardless of whether they want you there or not. If it were that would be a perverse incentive to actually try and make your own country collapse, as it'd be easier to claim "refugee" status than fix domestic issues. This is doubly true given that some people are fanatical about the issue of fully open borders regardless of downsides, and will immediately expand the definition of "refugee" to incorporate anyone at all. The concept of a "climate refugee" is already being promoted, for example. Combined with the argument you're making here it is just a cynical attempt to hijack people's good natured desire to help genuine war refugees, into jackhammering unlimited migration and open borders into society without consideration of any costs. This must not be allowed to happen as this kind of abuse will ultimately result in the collapse of support for any kind of refugee and asylum support.
  - _benedict 4y ago
    It isn’t a blank cheque, because making it to safety in a preferred country is exceptionally difficult and expensive. However, it is a blank cheque once you’ve surmounted those challenges and have arrived at the safe country you have chosen (and were able to reach), though most countries receiving such refugees are doing their best not to honour this obligation. It’s worth noting that the UK tries hard to prevent refugees reaching our shores, but the vast majority that do, and apply for asylum, are granted it [1]. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-december-2021/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statist...
    - origin_path 4y ago
      It's clearly not that difficult or expensive given the large numbers of people who manage to achieve it despite, theoretically, having no personal resources. If it were really exceptionally difficult then people wouldn't do it, as there's nothing wrong with the countries they crossed to get there.
      - clort 4y ago
        I see a selection bias in your comments there. There may be numbers of people who manage to achieve it but you can't strictly say if it was difficult or not unless you compare the number of people who tried and failed. You can't say it was not expensive unless you can demonstrate that some significant proportion of those who made it did not spend much money doing so.
      - _benedict 4y ago
        Being a refugee does not mean you have no resources. Would you flee your home country without taking your valuables? Would you have no friends or relatives to call upon to offer some monetary assistance, if it meant the difference between life and death? Most have few resources. The ones with more resources have more options about where they flee to.
        4y ago
shapefrog 4y ago
There is no rule requiring refugees to claim in the first safe country in which they arrive
clort 4y ago
No they do not cease to be a refugee when crossing a border, or many. That is simply a dismissive and disingenuous talking point pushed by the outrage media. They cease to be refugees when they have settled somewhere or voluntarily returned to their country of origin. See the 1951 UN Refugee Convention and the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees.

nradov 4y ago

The vast majority of illegal immigrants from Latin American countries don't meet the legal criteria to be considered refugees.