4 ms·

My comment wasn't 'anti immigrant', I was pondering how the vast numbers of people flooding into Europe and the UK (and the US as well) can be accommodated give

My comment wasn't 'anti immigrant', I was pondering how the vast numbers of people flooding into Europe and the UK (and the US as well) can be accommodated given the chronic shortages of everything and difficult economy. The fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with limo liberals who don't have to coexist and compete with the new arrivals, and worse deal with their sometimes illegal activities. The internet has allowed enormous numbers of people in the third world toeducatethemselves on the advantages of being in europe/uk as this video illustrates. Who can blame them wanting to game the system... https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts

worik 4y ago
> he fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with Have you any actual evidence? My experience is the opposite, for poor immigrants. Rich ones, on the other hand.... My prejudice is showing, is yours?
- mrtksn 4y ago
  I know right? Rich immigrants buy houses that they don’t even live in, disturb the local economy with their purchasing power but it’s the hard working ones who are a strain to the system.
  - worik 4y ago
    Perhaps we share a prejudice? I am really unsure what the data says. I hear claims, but always from agitators on one or other of the sides, and I do not trust them!
mrtksn 4y ago
I’m a multiple times immigrant and I’m yet to see those lazy immigrants. I’ve been illegal in Turkey and legal in UK and Germany as a EU citizen and worked as a waiter for months until get my first white collar job. No, I’m not speaking as a liberal who doesn’t have idea about the actual immigrants or the working class. I’ve been all of those.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Your haven't seen them because you've kept to places where they don't exist Hospitality workers are usually sink or swim. You won't find many people but hard workers there (local or immigrants) Now of course this ignores the ones that don't work and the cultural clashes that happen with lots of immigrants Framing everything as "immigration good/bad" is of course the main issue, it's like saying you fix obesity with eating/not eating
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    #NoTrueExperienceWithImmigrants
    - olivermarks 4y ago
      At least you're honest with your comment.
      - lazyasciiart 4y ago
        I'm sorry, it was actually a complete lie. Aside from having significant experience with immigrants to my home country, I became one myself as an adult. Better luck with your next attempt to argue from lack of experience!
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    See, my exposure is not limited to hospitality because after work I didn’t go to my house in Chelsea. The first few weeks I went to my hostel in Isle of Dogs, Camden and Seven Sisters. Then I a went to my house share in Brixton, Peckham, Kilburn and Lewisham. I changed a lot of places because hostels have 1 week limit and renting is pain in the ars due to catch 22 on proof of address. I met very large number of people from very different professions. Some unskilled, others blue collar and white collar. I’ve met legal and illegal people. Where are all those lazy immigrants? Everyone was working. I also don’t see any point of not working. Also, the numbers suggest that the immigrants are indeed hard working and contributing more to the system than they take and their per person net contribution is higher that the natives. What exactly makes you believe that the immigrants don’t work?
olivermarks 4y ago
Better link Europe’s most fortified border is in Africa sub saharan illegal immigrants into europe https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts
- olivermarks 4y ago
  Muhammad is most popular name in the UK for fifth year running, survey finds https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/muhammad-most-popular-name-uk-survey-finds https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/muhammad-most-popular-nam...
  - niemandhier 4y ago
    That is due to a lack of variance in names within a subpopulation. Everyone and his cousin is called Mohammed, heck in certain areas even girls have it as a second name.
    - olivermarks 4y ago
      This is the entire UK population, not a 'sub population'...
      - RealityVoid 4y ago
        His point is that a sub-population has a low name variance. Even if the sub-population is not very large, if the variance is much lower than the norm, it's going to show disproportionately in the top.
chx 4y ago
Considering the difficulties most of these people face to get to their target countries, it's not too far fetched to think most are indeed hard working and ambitious.

worik 4y ago

> he fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with Have you any actual evidence? My experience is the opposite, for poor immigrants. Rich ones, on the other hand.... My prejudice is showing, is yours?

mrtksn 4y ago
I know right? Rich immigrants buy houses that they don’t even live in, disturb the local economy with their purchasing power but it’s the hard working ones who are a strain to the system.
- worik 4y ago
  Perhaps we share a prejudice? I am really unsure what the data says. I hear claims, but always from agitators on one or other of the sides, and I do not trust them!

mrtksn 4y ago

I’m a multiple times immigrant and I’m yet to see those lazy immigrants. I’ve been illegal in Turkey and legal in UK and Germany as a EU citizen and worked as a waiter for months until get my first white collar job. No, I’m not speaking as a liberal who doesn’t have idea about the actual immigrants or the working class. I’ve been all of those.

raverbashing 4y ago
Your haven't seen them because you've kept to places where they don't exist Hospitality workers are usually sink or swim. You won't find many people but hard workers there (local or immigrants) Now of course this ignores the ones that don't work and the cultural clashes that happen with lots of immigrants Framing everything as "immigration good/bad" is of course the main issue, it's like saying you fix obesity with eating/not eating
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  #NoTrueExperienceWithImmigrants
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    At least you're honest with your comment.
    - lazyasciiart 4y ago
      I'm sorry, it was actually a complete lie. Aside from having significant experience with immigrants to my home country, I became one myself as an adult. Better luck with your next attempt to argue from lack of experience!
- mrtksn 4y ago
  See, my exposure is not limited to hospitality because after work I didn’t go to my house in Chelsea. The first few weeks I went to my hostel in Isle of Dogs, Camden and Seven Sisters. Then I a went to my house share in Brixton, Peckham, Kilburn and Lewisham. I changed a lot of places because hostels have 1 week limit and renting is pain in the ars due to catch 22 on proof of address. I met very large number of people from very different professions. Some unskilled, others blue collar and white collar. I’ve met legal and illegal people. Where are all those lazy immigrants? Everyone was working. I also don’t see any point of not working. Also, the numbers suggest that the immigrants are indeed hard working and contributing more to the system than they take and their per person net contribution is higher that the natives. What exactly makes you believe that the immigrants don’t work?

olivermarks 4y ago

Better link Europe’s most fortified border is in Africa sub saharan illegal immigrants into europe https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts

olivermarks 4y ago
Muhammad is most popular name in the UK for fifth year running, survey finds https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/muhammad-most-popular-name-uk-survey-finds https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/muhammad-most-popular-nam...
- niemandhier 4y ago
  That is due to a lack of variance in names within a subpopulation. Everyone and his cousin is called Mohammed, heck in certain areas even girls have it as a second name.
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    This is the entire UK population, not a 'sub population'...
    - RealityVoid 4y ago
      His point is that a sub-population has a low name variance. Even if the sub-population is not very large, if the variance is much lower than the norm, it's going to show disproportionately in the top.

chx 4y ago

Considering the difficulties most of these people face to get to their target countries, it's not too far fetched to think most are indeed hard working and ambitious.