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Most immigrants are economically very active since starting a new life from zero requires that. Unless you can't physically fit people in the island, the solut
by mrtksn 4y ago
Most immigrants are economically very active since starting a new life from zero requires that.
Unless you can't physically fit people in the island, the solution would be to let the immigrants work legally. Number of houses are not fixed like the total number of bitcoins, people can build new ones.
Despite the political rhetoric and recent trends, immigration is a good thing and the problems it causes can be reduced when handled properly. That's why the government, despite being dominated by Brexiteers who won by preaching the horrors of immigrants and lack of border control, actually don't try stopping the immigrants.
Surely the topic is a good tool for populist politicians but once they got the results for their careers, they can't actually live with those fantasies because people will notice.
I know that this is not a popular opinion but that's that. UK had option to control the immigration when was in the EU and choose not to. Why do you think is that? Because people who work are a good thing.
- sva_ 4y agoCheap labor that isn't allowed to vote. We see this all over Europe. I wonder what gives.
- mrtksn 4y agoIsn't allowed by whom exactly? Simply allow immigrants to vote. Have no work permits, thus working as cheap labor? Give them permits. It's appalling how people pretend that they don't have anything against immigrants but they are against illegal immigrants as if the paperwork for legal work is a natural phenomenon and they can't do anything about it.
- notch656a 4y agoWhy even have permits then? Just get rid of the permit system altogether. There are probably many million starving African desperate to work a job like trash-man or food packager. Competition for lower skilled jobs will become fierce, but I guess competition is a good thing.
- mrtksn 4y agoI agree. Why would the government be the first step of HR? As if the companies can't choose the right employees for themselves and they need to go through the state bureaucracy so that they don't hire a lumberjack from Bangladesh as a JS developer in Bristol.
- pessimizer 4y agoYes, changing even the tiniest thing is basically destroying everything.
- random314 4y ago
- yunohn 4y ago> Isn't allowed by whom exactly? To be clear, as suggested by the rest of your comment, it is currently not allowed due to various political reasons. Nobody is arguing ideal situations, only reality.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago> Simply allow immigrants to vote. You've just given me a great business idea. Votes for hire. I bet I could charge a fortune, and I would only have to pass a small fraction of that on to the immigrants I employ.
- throw123123123 4y agoWhy is that different to money for votes?
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y agoSimple - money for votes requires registered voters. My scheme - erm, "business plan" - just needs unregistered immigrants! Way easier to enact, because they're undocumented to begin with!
- vkou 4y agoIt's not.
- secondcoming 4y agoIf you’re in the UK legally you can vote.
- 07t15 4y agoAs someone who is legally in the UK (more than a year), this isn't true. It might apply to the citizens of some countries (like the EU).
- thraxil 4y agoYep. Only British, EU, and Commonwealth citizens living legally in the UK can vote. Those of us from anywhere else in the world can't vote until we fully naturalize.
- notch656a 4y agoI agree that immigrants are a good thing. Especially illegal immigrants if they have no way to benefit from tax benefits but are forced to pay into it. It means they're basically forced to be a net benefit. The key is to make sure any benefits offered to immigrants are not a net drain on society. Usually this is the case, particularly if you just deny illegal immigrants any service while forcing them to pay taxes, but one has to be careful that systems aren't set up that allow exploitation of citizens.
- mrtksn 4y agoThat was well established that the immigrants are a net contributors(actually bigger contributors per capita in comparison to the locals) and actually a very small number of the immigrants take payments from the social security system. It doesn't make any sense to go to another country and possibly spend a lot of money and risk your life and live on bare minimum. Very small number of people take that path.
- notch656a 4y agoIn my country immigrants are high net contributors, but that is because they are illegal thus they get basically no benefits; or they are legal and thus they usually have a high bar (unless family sponsored) of being more educated or wealthy than our typical citizens.
- worik 4y ago> ut that is because they are illegal thus they get basically no benefits Evidence?
- notch656a 4y agoYou don't understand that if society provides you no benefits, and you pay into taxes from otherwise (sans the fact you're an illegal immigrant) legitimate labor, it's almost impossible to be a net drain?
- olivermarks 4y agoMy comment wasn't 'anti immigrant', I was pondering how the vast numbers of people flooding into Europe and the UK (and the US as well) can be accommodated given the chronic shortages of everything and difficult economy. The fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with limo liberals who don't have to coexist and compete with the new arrivals, and worse deal with their sometimes illegal activities. The internet has allowed enormous numbers of people in the third world toeducatethemselves on the advantages of being in europe/uk as this video illustrates. Who can blame them wanting to game the system... https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts
- worik 4y ago> he fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with Have you any actual evidence? My experience is the opposite, for poor immigrants. Rich ones, on the other hand.... My prejudice is showing, is yours?
- mrtksn 4y agoI know right? Rich immigrants buy houses that they don’t even live in, disturb the local economy with their purchasing power but it’s the hard working ones who are a strain to the system.
- worik 4y agoPerhaps we share a prejudice? I am really unsure what the data says. I hear claims, but always from agitators on one or other of the sides, and I do not trust them!
- mrtksn 4y agoI’m a multiple times immigrant and I’m yet to see those lazy immigrants. I’ve been illegal in Turkey and legal in UK and Germany as a EU citizen and worked as a waiter for months until get my first white collar job. No, I’m not speaking as a liberal who doesn’t have idea about the actual immigrants or the working class. I’ve been all of those.
- aikah 4y ago
- mrtksn 4y agoNope. Gotta pay the rent and buy food. No pimps unless you are a prostitute. There’s no slave debt, it cost a few grands to get somewhere illegally and most people pay that through the money from friends and family and savings. Once in UK or another rich country you work crazy hours and you make that money back in a month or two. After that you start looking how to improve your own situation and make it worth. UK or EU is not Dubai, no one takes your passport and make you work like a slave. There are some fringe cases but it’s not how it work for the millions of immigrants.
- aikah 4y agoYour denial of the facts of illegal immigration from third world countries to Europe is unmatched. https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-statistics/crime-areas/facilitation-of-illegal-immigration https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-statistics/cri... The rest of your comments here just look like a typical copy-pasta fallacy, simply ignoring the scope of the assertion the parent comment made, to make an unrelated point. Of course, all is well when somebody denies facts. > UK or EU is not Dubai, no one takes your passport and make you work like a slave. There are some fringe cases but it’s not how it work for the millions of immigrants. This is an objectively false assertion, forced labour AKA slavery is a thing in Europe. https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/17/forced-labour-most-prevalent-form-of-modern-slavery-in-europe-says-report https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/17/forced-labour-most-preva...
- golemiprague 4y ago
- Gollapalli 4y agoWage dilution is an issue. It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration. Those who are in the position to not have their wages threatened by mass immigration policies are free to reap the rewards of cheap labor, but for those who are in the position of being outcompeted by incoming labor, immigration is a drawback not an asset. Naturally, policymakers are in the former category, and as such, happen to quite like mass immigration.
- sangnoir 4y ago> It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration. Didn't farmers complain that British (working class?)citizens[1] weren't up for picking fruits after East Europeans hit the Brexit? The same working & middle class rely on cheap fruits, so it's not a simple equation where fewer immigrants = better jobs. 1. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286
- thrown_22 4y agoI'm not sure how to respond without being glib, but there's more to life than fruit. Safe working conditions are worth 5 pound strawberries.
- sangnoir 4y agoSure - there's more to life than fruit, massages, receiving trucked goods, and being attended to by health techs - but add it all up and you're missing quite a huge chunk of "life", IMO.
- thrown_22 4y agoIf a system depends on disposable workers to provide those things than it's not a system we should be supporting. We need to figure out how to provide a wage large enough to provide for everyone, not just the lucky few who have an army of slaves to meet their needs. Currently we don't and we are stealing the human capital of the second world to support our failing countries.
- bowsamic 4y ago> Unless you can't physically fit people in the island They can’t physically fit, huge amounts of protected greenfield sites are being demolished by the government for cheap new build housing