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Illegal immigration into the UK from the third world is far greater now than it was in the era of Mo Farah's childhood. I have to wonder how the UK social const
by olivermarks 4y ago
Illegal immigration into the UK from the third world is far greater now than it was in the era of Mo Farah's childhood. I have to wonder how the UK social construct can survive with the huge numbers of people entering given the lack of housing, water, food etc
https://youtu.be/PAeRejE467g https://youtu.be/PAeRejE467g
- mrtksn 4y agoMost immigrants are economically very active since starting a new life from zero requires that. Unless you can't physically fit people in the island, the solution would be to let the immigrants work legally. Number of houses are not fixed like the total number of bitcoins, people can build new ones. Despite the political rhetoric and recent trends, immigration is a good thing and the problems it causes can be reduced when handled properly. That's why the government, despite being dominated by Brexiteers who won by preaching the horrors of immigrants and lack of border control, actually don't try stopping the immigrants. Surely the topic is a good tool for populist politicians but once they got the results for their careers, they can't actually live with those fantasies because people will notice. I know that this is not a popular opinion but that's that. UK had option to control the immigration when was in the EU and choose not to. Why do you think is that? Because people who work are a good thing.
- sva_ 4y agoCheap labor that isn't allowed to vote. We see this all over Europe. I wonder what gives.
- mrtksn 4y agoIsn't allowed by whom exactly? Simply allow immigrants to vote. Have no work permits, thus working as cheap labor? Give them permits. It's appalling how people pretend that they don't have anything against immigrants but they are against illegal immigrants as if the paperwork for legal work is a natural phenomenon and they can't do anything about it.
- notch656a 4y agoWhy even have permits then? Just get rid of the permit system altogether. There are probably many million starving African desperate to work a job like trash-man or food packager. Competition for lower skilled jobs will become fierce, but I guess competition is a good thing.
- mrtksn 4y agoI agree. Why would the government be the first step of HR? As if the companies can't choose the right employees for themselves and they need to go through the state bureaucracy so that they don't hire a lumberjack from Bangladesh as a JS developer in Bristol.
- pessimizer 4y agoYes, changing even the tiniest thing is basically destroying everything.
- random314 4y ago
- yunohn 4y ago> Isn't allowed by whom exactly? To be clear, as suggested by the rest of your comment, it is currently not allowed due to various political reasons. Nobody is arguing ideal situations, only reality.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago> Simply allow immigrants to vote. You've just given me a great business idea. Votes for hire. I bet I could charge a fortune, and I would only have to pass a small fraction of that on to the immigrants I employ.
- throw123123123 4y agoWhy is that different to money for votes?
- secondcoming 4y agoIf you’re in the UK legally you can vote.
- 07t15 4y agoAs someone who is legally in the UK (more than a year), this isn't true. It might apply to the citizens of some countries (like the EU).
- thraxil 4y agoYep. Only British, EU, and Commonwealth citizens living legally in the UK can vote. Those of us from anywhere else in the world can't vote until we fully naturalize.
- notch656a 4y agoI agree that immigrants are a good thing. Especially illegal immigrants if they have no way to benefit from tax benefits but are forced to pay into it. It means they're basically forced to be a net benefit. The key is to make sure any benefits offered to immigrants are not a net drain on society. Usually this is the case, particularly if you just deny illegal immigrants any service while forcing them to pay taxes, but one has to be careful that systems aren't set up that allow exploitation of citizens.
- mrtksn 4y agoThat was well established that the immigrants are a net contributors(actually bigger contributors per capita in comparison to the locals) and actually a very small number of the immigrants take payments from the social security system. It doesn't make any sense to go to another country and possibly spend a lot of money and risk your life and live on bare minimum. Very small number of people take that path.
- notch656a 4y agoIn my country immigrants are high net contributors, but that is because they are illegal thus they get basically no benefits; or they are legal and thus they usually have a high bar (unless family sponsored) of being more educated or wealthy than our typical citizens.
- worik 4y ago> ut that is because they are illegal thus they get basically no benefits Evidence?
- notch656a 4y agoYou don't understand that if society provides you no benefits, and you pay into taxes from otherwise (sans the fact you're an illegal immigrant) legitimate labor, it's almost impossible to be a net drain?
- olivermarks 4y agoMy comment wasn't 'anti immigrant', I was pondering how the vast numbers of people flooding into Europe and the UK (and the US as well) can be accommodated given the chronic shortages of everything and difficult economy. The fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with limo liberals who don't have to coexist and compete with the new arrivals, and worse deal with their sometimes illegal activities. The internet has allowed enormous numbers of people in the third world toeducatethemselves on the advantages of being in europe/uk as this video illustrates. Who can blame them wanting to game the system... https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts https://youtu.be/LY_Yiu2U2Ts
- worik 4y ago> he fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with Have you any actual evidence? My experience is the opposite, for poor immigrants. Rich ones, on the other hand.... My prejudice is showing, is yours?
- mrtksn 4y agoI know right? Rich immigrants buy houses that they don’t even live in, disturb the local economy with their purchasing power but it’s the hard working ones who are a strain to the system.
- worik 4y agoPerhaps we share a prejudice? I am really unsure what the data says. I hear claims, but always from agitators on one or other of the sides, and I do not trust them!
- mrtksn 4y agoI’m a multiple times immigrant and I’m yet to see those lazy immigrants. I’ve been illegal in Turkey and legal in UK and Germany as a EU citizen and worked as a waiter for months until get my first white collar job. No, I’m not speaking as a liberal who doesn’t have idea about the actual immigrants or the working class. I’ve been all of those.
- aikah 4y ago
- mrtksn 4y agoNope. Gotta pay the rent and buy food. No pimps unless you are a prostitute. There’s no slave debt, it cost a few grands to get somewhere illegally and most people pay that through the money from friends and family and savings. Once in UK or another rich country you work crazy hours and you make that money back in a month or two. After that you start looking how to improve your own situation and make it worth. UK or EU is not Dubai, no one takes your passport and make you work like a slave. There are some fringe cases but it’s not how it work for the millions of immigrants.
- aikah 4y agoYour denial of the facts of illegal immigration from third world countries to Europe is unmatched. https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-statistics/crime-areas/facilitation-of-illegal-immigration https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-statistics/cri... The rest of your comments here just look like a typical copy-pasta fallacy, simply ignoring the scope of the assertion the parent comment made, to make an unrelated point. Of course, all is well when somebody denies facts. > UK or EU is not Dubai, no one takes your passport and make you work like a slave. There are some fringe cases but it’s not how it work for the millions of immigrants. This is an objectively false assertion, forced labour AKA slavery is a thing in Europe. https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/17/forced-labour-most-prevalent-form-of-modern-slavery-in-europe-says-report https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/17/forced-labour-most-preva...
- golemiprague 4y ago
- Gollapalli 4y agoWage dilution is an issue. It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration. Those who are in the position to not have their wages threatened by mass immigration policies are free to reap the rewards of cheap labor, but for those who are in the position of being outcompeted by incoming labor, immigration is a drawback not an asset. Naturally, policymakers are in the former category, and as such, happen to quite like mass immigration.
- sangnoir 4y ago> It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration. Didn't farmers complain that British (working class?)citizens[1] weren't up for picking fruits after East Europeans hit the Brexit? The same working & middle class rely on cheap fruits, so it's not a simple equation where fewer immigrants = better jobs. 1. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286
- thrown_22 4y agoI'm not sure how to respond without being glib, but there's more to life than fruit. Safe working conditions are worth 5 pound strawberries.
- sangnoir 4y agoSure - there's more to life than fruit, massages, receiving trucked goods, and being attended to by health techs - but add it all up and you're missing quite a huge chunk of "life", IMO.
- thrown_22 4y agoIf a system depends on disposable workers to provide those things than it's not a system we should be supporting. We need to figure out how to provide a wage large enough to provide for everyone, not just the lucky few who have an army of slaves to meet their needs. Currently we don't and we are stealing the human capital of the second world to support our failing countries.
- bowsamic 4y ago> Unless you can't physically fit people in the island They can’t physically fit, huge amounts of protected greenfield sites are being demolished by the government for cheap new build housing
- jeffbee 4y ago
- giraffe_lady 4y ago> I have to wonder how the UK social construct can survive with the huge numbers of people entering Wow like, are you concerned about Replacement maybe? Seems a little racist to me but I'm not that Great at european geopolitics I guess.
- brippalcharrid 4y agoI suppose the folks at the UN must have been swept up by racist rhetoric when they started writing reports about Replacement Migration for Western countries.
- labster 4y agoIf you’re legitimately worried about excessive immigration, you should be doing everything you can to fight climate change. Hundreds of millions of people could be displaced by environmental disasters like sea level rise, typhoon flooding, drought, and famine. If you don’t want a repeat of the emigration at the end of the Bronze Age, we need to do all we can to stop climate change.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Gollapalli 4y agoIt's because they see a better quality of life in western countries. Climate change has nothing to do with it.
- _carbyau_ 4y agoThis will be interesting here in Australia. We've had quite a lot of major flood events on the east coast in the past year. Thousands of people should move as it is predictable that it will happen again in the next 20 years. So completely within our own country we will have climate change related movements of people. We also have a lot of landspace for our population size and quite a few neighbouring pacific island nations that may need a place to go. And to offset China's assertions in the Pacific, Australia is doing all it can right now to be seen as the "helpful neighbour"... I expect to see more in this space over the next 40 years.
- jen20 4y agoWhat UK social construct, exactly?
- yunohn 4y ago> Illegal immigration into the UK from the third world Ironic, given the UK’s history of illegally colonising and creating a “third world” from their exploitation.
- fennecfoxen 4y agoReally the third world is still basically defined in terms of your historical relationships to the US or the Soviet Union. Despite the end of that particular conflict the membership in various worlds hasn't much changed.
- balderdash 4y agoIt’s all about a) the amount (enough to make up for the lower developed birthdate, and to keep inflation low, but not so much as to completely destabilize the quality of life of the native lower/middle class) b) composition (not all immigrants are created equal when it comes to net contribution (regardless of desire to work/contribute)(e.g. a someone older, with serious health conditions and lacking an a grade school education Vs say a college educated, young, and healthy.)
- fy20 4y agoRefugees from the Ukrainian war can be used as a good case study to understand this. I live in Lithuania, which has taken over 50,000 people since the start of the war, which equates to around 2% of the total population. Most of the refugees are women and children, as the men usually stay to fight, so they are less productive in the labour market. They are given a lot of benefits that regular working class do not have, which has led to the media and working class creating a lot of disdain towards Ukrainians. A friend told me that over the weekend he saw a worker in a supermarket start shouting at a Ukrainian woman who simply asked him where something is. It sounds exactly the same as the rheotric from rightwing media in the UK before Brexit, 'all these immigrants stealing our jobs'. In the capital there is a shortage of housing, and the advertised rental prices have gone up 30-50% based on what they would have been asking for last year. This isn't just because of Ukraine though. Over the last decade a lot of people have relocated to larger cities, and I feel that a lot of this is life returning to normal post COVID (people want to live in the city centre again), as well as new construction projects being delayed (there are two large residential developments in my street that planned to complete early 2022, but still aren't anywhere near ready). Prices for food have gone up, but I see this more as an effect of energy prices going up than because of refugees. I have not noticed any shortages of anything, outside of what products sanctions have stopped.
- thrown_22 4y agoThey don't. There's a reason why right wing parties are popular for the working poor and why Brexit and anti-immigration in general is most popular in the most economically depressed areas. Liberals aren't doing themselves any favors by sweeping thins like the Rotherham child rape gangs and Manchester Arena bombing under the rug because they happened to white trash.
- pppq 4y ago
- xbmcuser 4y agoIllegal immigration happens because of the billions of dollars of corruption that is done in those countries and then parked in UK banks and property markets. If the west would stop the illegal and corruption outflow of resources from poor countries the need for people to get out of these countries and immigrate to west would decrease dramatically automatically.