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>This really separates the grinders vs the smart kids as the tests are based on what you intend to study, but most are more intelligence based and cannot necess

>This really separates the grinders vs the smart kids as the tests are based on what you intend to study, but most are more intelligence based and cannot necessarily be prepped for. Can you expand on that? I would be amazed to find tests that truly measure intelligence and where your score doesn't improve with practice.

lordnacho 4y ago
Not sure I agree with it. I think you get a lot of Asian kids passing because they teach a lot of advanced things in their education system that are just beyond the curriculum in the West. Thus when it comes time to ask the clever questions, some kids already know the answer. I think in general people who know the answer to something misjudge how hard it is to figure out from first principles.
- meetingthrower 4y ago
  The grinds that can ace the test but can't speak are weeded out by the interview part. Just look on oxfords website for the admissions test. The TSA test for example is required on top of the math test. Of course you can train yourself to do these better, but because they are so specific to each major, there is not a test prep industry behind them. So it is a more natural test. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-ox...
  - lordnacho 4y ago
    There's no separate test prep industry, but private secondary schools will have extra classes for people based on what they intend to apply for. They also prep the kids for the interviews, for instance with mock sessions. That kind of thing is not available to ordinary kids. There's a wealth of Oxbridge application experience that is basically what such schools sell. I'm currently looking at them as a parent. Isn't this what was depicted in The History Boys? The extra class for kids who wanted to get into Oxford? Can't quite remember.
    - meetingthrower 4y ago
      I don't know if you are from US or not, but the stuff over there cannot hold a candle to what happens in the US. I'm not saying it's totally meritocratic, but compared to US system, it is WILDLY more so for high performers.
      - lordnacho 4y ago
        I agree on that. There's no back door in the UK system, whereas the US system seems to be a front door with 1% acceptance plus a back door with maybe 40%. Choose your door with money. In the UK system, even if you do have privilege, you still have to do the same exercises and the same work, and impress the same person to get in.
meetingthrower 4y ago
Sorry posted to the child comment below. It can certainly improve with practice but since these are so specific to each major, there is not a test prep industry geared up behind them. (you can do it on your own though, as they post the tests and most answer keys for prior years.) https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-ox...

lordnacho 4y ago

Not sure I agree with it. I think you get a lot of Asian kids passing because they teach a lot of advanced things in their education system that are just beyond the curriculum in the West. Thus when it comes time to ask the clever questions, some kids already know the answer. I think in general people who know the answer to something misjudge how hard it is to figure out from first principles.

meetingthrower 4y ago
The grinds that can ace the test but can't speak are weeded out by the interview part. Just look on oxfords website for the admissions test. The TSA test for example is required on top of the math test. Of course you can train yourself to do these better, but because they are so specific to each major, there is not a test prep industry behind them. So it is a more natural test. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-ox...
- lordnacho 4y ago
  There's no separate test prep industry, but private secondary schools will have extra classes for people based on what they intend to apply for. They also prep the kids for the interviews, for instance with mock sessions. That kind of thing is not available to ordinary kids. There's a wealth of Oxbridge application experience that is basically what such schools sell. I'm currently looking at them as a parent. Isn't this what was depicted in The History Boys? The extra class for kids who wanted to get into Oxford? Can't quite remember.
  - meetingthrower 4y ago
    I don't know if you are from US or not, but the stuff over there cannot hold a candle to what happens in the US. I'm not saying it's totally meritocratic, but compared to US system, it is WILDLY more so for high performers.
    - lordnacho 4y ago
      I agree on that. There's no back door in the UK system, whereas the US system seems to be a front door with 1% acceptance plus a back door with maybe 40%. Choose your door with money. In the UK system, even if you do have privilege, you still have to do the same exercises and the same work, and impress the same person to get in.

meetingthrower 4y ago

Sorry posted to the child comment below. It can certainly improve with practice but since these are so specific to each major, there is not a test prep industry geared up behind them. (you can do it on your own though, as they post the tests and most answer keys for prior years.) https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-ox...