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Can confirm. Just went to open days at Oxford and Cambridge with my son. We are Americans. Both my wife and I are double ivy grads. Totally different than the

Can confirm. Just went to open days at Oxford and Cambridge with my son. We are Americans. Both my wife and I are double ivy grads. Totally different than the US and much more meritocratic. Steps are: 1. Be qualified to apply. In UK this means at least AAA if not more. Varies by course. US equivalent is have at least three 5s on AP and above 1450 on SAT. This is roughly equivalent to top 10% of uk graduates. 2. Take the entrance exam. Huge weed out. This really separates the grinders vs the smart kids as the tests are based on what you intend to study, but most are more intelligence based and cannot necessarily be prepped for. 3. Assuming you make it past that, you get two sets of interviews. They are testing for the ability to go toe to toe in an intellectual conversation on your subject. This is obviously biased toward a certain "type", but given the small group tutorial teaching, it is really a responsibility of the student to engage this way to provide a good experience for all. No sitting in the back of the room taking notes! 4. There are some additional crazy things like applying to specific colleges, and wildly different admit rates based on the course you choose. But the overall impression I got was that for a well prepared and smart kid, it is much more straightforward than the so called elite US schools.

lordnacho 4y ago
> But the overall impression I got was that for a well prepared and smart kid, it is much more straightforward than the so called elite US schools. Yes, plus you can skip applying to all the US schools if you get accepted, because you get the acceptance letter in December. I went to a high school that sent kids to both US and UK universities, and the US ones are incredibly onerous, not to mention expensive to even apply for. Multiple teacher references, essays that are supposed to be some sort of work of art, requirements to do extracurricular stuff. I did the SATs, got the Oxford acceptance, and just dropped all the US stuff entirely.
- meetingthrower 4y ago
  Damn I wish that were still true. They say they issue decisions in January now, which is after application deadlines for everyone else (Jan 1.)
ProjectArcturis 4y ago
>This really separates the grinders vs the smart kids as the tests are based on what you intend to study, but most are more intelligence based and cannot necessarily be prepped for. Can you expand on that? I would be amazed to find tests that truly measure intelligence and where your score doesn't improve with practice.
- lordnacho 4y ago
  Not sure I agree with it. I think you get a lot of Asian kids passing because they teach a lot of advanced things in their education system that are just beyond the curriculum in the West. Thus when it comes time to ask the clever questions, some kids already know the answer. I think in general people who know the answer to something misjudge how hard it is to figure out from first principles.
  - meetingthrower 4y ago
    The grinds that can ace the test but can't speak are weeded out by the interview part. Just look on oxfords website for the admissions test. The TSA test for example is required on top of the math test. Of course you can train yourself to do these better, but because they are so specific to each major, there is not a test prep industry behind them. So it is a more natural test. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-ox...
    - lordnacho 4y ago
      There's no separate test prep industry, but private secondary schools will have extra classes for people based on what they intend to apply for. They also prep the kids for the interviews, for instance with mock sessions. That kind of thing is not available to ordinary kids. There's a wealth of Oxbridge application experience that is basically what such schools sell. I'm currently looking at them as a parent. Isn't this what was depicted in The History Boys? The extra class for kids who wanted to get into Oxford? Can't quite remember.

lordnacho 4y ago

> But the overall impression I got was that for a well prepared and smart kid, it is much more straightforward than the so called elite US schools. Yes, plus you can skip applying to all the US schools if you get accepted, because you get the acceptance letter in December. I went to a high school that sent kids to both US and UK universities, and the US ones are incredibly onerous, not to mention expensive to even apply for. Multiple teacher references, essays that are supposed to be some sort of work of art, requirements to do extracurricular stuff. I did the SATs, got the Oxford acceptance, and just dropped all the US stuff entirely.

meetingthrower 4y ago
Damn I wish that were still true. They say they issue decisions in January now, which is after application deadlines for everyone else (Jan 1.)

ProjectArcturis 4y ago

>This really separates the grinders vs the smart kids as the tests are based on what you intend to study, but most are more intelligence based and cannot necessarily be prepped for. Can you expand on that? I would be amazed to find tests that truly measure intelligence and where your score doesn't improve with practice.

lordnacho 4y ago
Not sure I agree with it. I think you get a lot of Asian kids passing because they teach a lot of advanced things in their education system that are just beyond the curriculum in the West. Thus when it comes time to ask the clever questions, some kids already know the answer. I think in general people who know the answer to something misjudge how hard it is to figure out from first principles.
- meetingthrower 4y ago
  The grinds that can ace the test but can't speak are weeded out by the interview part. Just look on oxfords website for the admissions test. The TSA test for example is required on top of the math test. Of course you can train yourself to do these better, but because they are so specific to each major, there is not a test prep industry behind them. So it is a more natural test. https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-ox...
  - lordnacho 4y ago
    There's no separate test prep industry, but private secondary schools will have extra classes for people based on what they intend to apply for. They also prep the kids for the interviews, for instance with mock sessions. That kind of thing is not available to ordinary kids. There's a wealth of Oxbridge application experience that is basically what such schools sell. I'm currently looking at them as a parent. Isn't this what was depicted in The History Boys? The extra class for kids who wanted to get into Oxford? Can't quite remember.