35 ms·
Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their i
by Calvin02 4y ago
Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world.
It is surprisingly that simple.
While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII.
I don’t know why anyone would be afraid to say this.
- guywatershow 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Rules were made to be broken!
- onelovetwo 4y agoIf you're looking at it from that perspective, tiktok should be the least of your worries. Currently The U.S. is entirely dependent on this "geopolitical threat" to survive. At least with tiktok its as simple as shutting down the app. The U.S and China are entangled in ways you cant imagine.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- fabianhjr 4y agoI am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI
- ciroduran 4y agoHi from Venezuela
- fabianhjr 4y agoAh yes, also curiously enough the US is way more prone to completely embargo Cuba and Venezuela but neither Russia nor China. (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones) Edit: profile I am replying to has the following in their about section: "about: I play music and I code videogames. I live in Brighton, UK." so assuming the "hi from venezuela" was sarcastic.
- ciroduran 4y agoI lived there 29 years of my life, I lived the dictatorship, and I still got family and friends. Far from sarcastic.
- fabianhjr 4y agoAh yes, compared to the constitutional monarchy of the United Kingdom.
- rafaelm 4y agoI'm currently living the dictatorship in Venezuela. Ask me if you think Ciro's opinion is not valid, for whatever reason. (Don't know him btw. Epale Ciro!)
- fabianhjr 4y ago¿Crees que solo hay dictaduras bajo gobiernos anti-capitalistas o es algo en donde por ejemplo Qatar (o Reino Unido) siendo monarquías constitucionales podrían superar en autoritarismo?
- judge2020 4y ago> (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones) Has there ever been a lasting trade embargo that was based solely on moral and ethical grounds?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bitlax 4y agoYeah Russia has been totally hands off in Latin America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#/media/File:CheinMoscow.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#/media/File:CheinM...
- fabianhjr 4y agoRussian Federation != Union of Soviet Socialist Republics More so: Russian Federation != Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic
- illuminati1911 4y agoUSA during Reagan in 1980s != USA today
- _tik_ 4y agoIraq Invasion is the USA today
- throwawaymaths 4y agoNo? We finally had a president that hasn't started a new war (trump) and we are on track to having a president that hasn't started a new war and has withdrawn troops from one war. Things are changing.
- random314 4y agoHowever the firm grip on Haiti and Latin America in general is not gone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide
- edmcnulty101 4y ago
- effingwewt 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- beebmam 4y ago*Yet
- giancarlostoro 4y agoChina didn't need to, they flock to China and other countries on their own, for example Hugo Chavez with China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Ch%C3%A1vez_administration_(1999-2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Venezuela_relati... What was once a beautiful nation is now rife with crime, even the military of all things is told not to have cell phones out by stop lights because somebody will swing on by on a motorcycle and hijack the phone. From the darn military! Still surprised they get away with it. I also remember hearing from a relative that Chavez would basically bring Cuban doctors over from Cuba.
- tsol 4y agoTo be fair, Cuba is very very good at training doctors
- anothernewdude 4y agoRussia has put down multiple popular uprisings within its sphere - Belarus, Kazakhstan. Invaded Georgia, and Ukraine to effect regime change. And looks to be behind the Coup in Mali and one in Montenegro. China has supported violent Juntas in Myanmar, and Sudan. It has essentially performed a coup in Hong Kong. And of course it loves supplying weapons to latin countries via Norinco. And it's doing economic damage and putting more of those countries in debt, just like it took Hambantota International Port from Sri Lanka. Both are racking up kills elsewhere in Africa too.
- quetzthecoatl 4y agoand all of that combined is like a regular wedensday for US.
- bigcat12345678 4y ago> China has supported violent Juntas in Myanmar, and Sudan. Links please? Saying nothing / neutral Verbal approval Material support All these can be interpreted as supporting military Juntas. And military Juntas are not necessarily bad. For example, SK was developed effectively through a Military Junta government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Republic_of_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Republic_of_Korea > It has essentially performed a coup in Hong Kong. What is this? HK is part of China right? > it loves supplying weapons to latin countries via Norinco. Nothing special, China's aim is the largest weapon exporter. > And it's doing economic damage and putting more of those countries in debt, just like it took Hambantota International Port from Sri Lanka. This is shown to be a myth, as some other comments here suggested. > Both are racking up kills elsewhere in Africa too. What is this?
- anothernewdude 4y ago> This is shown to be a myth, as some other comments here suggested. There have certainly been a bunch of opinion pieces expressing that opinion coming out at the same time. Which is incredibly weird, unless... oh right, opinions can be bought and China has a history of doing that. Mystery solved I guess.
- pinkcashmere 4y ago
- Sophistifunk 4y agoAbsolutely nothing about the historical bad behaviour of the US in Central and South America has any bearing on the threat the CCP poses to a billion Chinese and the world today. Nothing.
- bshepard 4y agoActually, they have a lot to do with each other, as the violence that the United States did to Central and South America was always justified with anticommunist rhetoric, like this. A Peter Kingsley quote, more about spiritual perception, also applies to the political: "The only possible way to understand is by standing back in the stillness that lies underneath thinking and sees things as they really are. It's like watching hundreds of colors, each of them trying to persuade you it happens to be the most important one-then stepping back and seeing they all form a single rainbow. Thoughts in themselves are always leading to division and separation. But all thoughts, together, are a single whole." (from "Reality")
- trashtester 4y agoNot their actions in Latin America, but the USA did parttake in some extreme violence in Asia about 75 years ago that could be blamed for the CCP gaining power in the first place. I'm not sure Imperial Japanese rule would be so much better, though.
- tormeh 4y agoImperial Japan was arguably worse than Nazi Germany. Unbelievably bad.
- noisy_boy 4y agoChina has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair comment - I have relations there and have seen the changes firsthand over the decade during numerous visits).
- fabianhjr 4y agoI would much rather have that over the Jakarta Method.
- dirtyid 4y ago>insideous Which is fairly tame in terms of securing geopolitical influence and enables more win-win arrangments. Especially with respect to Laos - a landlocked country with (to be blunt) zero long term development prospects. Laos per capital GDP growth has been on pace with booming Vietnam that has access to outsource manufacturing and maritime trade. Laos should be worse off than Cambodia that has 60% of current Laos per capita GDP. Even their largest export/growth sector - hydropower to Thailand is enabled by PRC (not to sound patronizing). PRC infra projects setup Laos to be the battery of region + rail connectivity for other exports = only real viable of short/medium term growth strategy for a undeveloped landlocked country with poor human development. Go look up gdp per capita trends of ASEAN since 2000 when PRC growth started blowing up, also LATM during same period. You'll be hard pressed to find any country whose per capita GDP increased by 8x like Laos. Many are luck with half that. As for societal changes on border regions that benefits from flow of migrant and economic development, that's what happens when countries get richer - things change. If you think that's a bad deal then I'm curious if you can find a better one, especially for a land locked country with no maritime access.
- throwawaymaths 4y agoWhile we're cherry picking examples, there's Sri Lanka, port of gwadar.
- aivisol 4y agoI am from eastern Europe and right now Russia is invading a democratic country to install its own government, tortures and massacres everyone left and right.
- throwawaymaths 4y agoRussia definitely has, just not as much in your backyard. China hasn't, but that's probably because the last time they tried that they got their ass handed to them by a country that had just been savagely attacked by (but also defeated) the us. Also it has been slowly encroaching on India and bhutan territory. China definitely declares it's intent to export it's style of polity around the world. And that does include torturing and disappearing citizens that are supposed to be on their own watch.
- tsol 4y agoThat's because Latin America is nowhere near China or Russia. They aren't going to go half way around the world to harass Latin Americans. But if Latin America was in the place of Hong Kong, Laos, or Ukraine they wouldn't enjoy the same peace
- lmm 4y ago> While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still a largely law abiding. Perhaps on an internal level. But for those of us in third countries what matters is how they act outside their borders, and the US is doing considerably more dronestriking of their political enemies than China is. (And even if you just look at domestic aspects, the relevant area is one of the exceptions. The NSA seems to be decoupled from any oversight - its leaders lie to congress with impunity, any attempts to hold them to account via the courts are dismissed...)
- option 4y agoyou conveniently left Russia out of your “acting outside of their borders” discussion… In case you haven’t noticed they started a bloody war in Ukraine this year.
- starfallg 4y agoOr CCP troops engaging in bloody border skirmishes with shovels.
- bigcat12345678 4y agoWhat is this?
- bpye 4y agoThe China-India border? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913
- lenkite 4y ago5x more folks die in shootings per day in the USA than in that border conflict. Please note that neither Chinese soldiers nor Indian soldiers escalated to using firearms - despite carrying them - in order to stick to a mutual agreement!
- 4y ago
- alfiedotwtf 4y ago> they are still a largely law abiding Where does one even begin...
- Al-Khwarizmi 4y agoYou would be surprised if you polled non-US, non-China citizens about what country is the biggest geopolitical threat to the world. Wait, I don't even need to talk in conditionals. I Googled it and apparently it has indeed been done several times, and the results are what I expected. https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/ https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo...
- konschubert 4y agookay, go poll Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, ...
- Al-Khwarizmi 4y agoYeah, because polling your closest friends is the best way to get an unbiased opinion. By the way, those are countries near another warmonging superpower... What if you poll South America?
- calsy 4y agoDidn't the states just pull out of Afghanistan after 20 years of occupation? Or is that last years news? 20 Years! Edit: Downvotes, whats the best way to deal with colossal failure... pretend like it never happened. Afghanistan, huh? what are you talking about.
- judge2020 4y agoAfghanistan is quite infamous for being the most difficult region to take over; the Brits and the Soviets tried before long the US did https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasions_of_Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasions_of_Afghanistan
- calsy 4y agoWell maybe those in power should have read up on their history before trying to 'take over' Afghanistan. Might have been a good idea for a country half a world a way, separated by a large ocean.
- bool3max 4y agoYou are delusional.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Barrin92 4y ago>Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. You may want to consult the so called 'global south' on that question who represents the majority of people on the planet and seems to have quite a different impression. Undoing America's 'rule based order' isn't a geopolitical threat to the world, it's a geopolitical threat to the US. Why would billions of people on earth be afraid of living in a world where their countries have actual influence? You may want to get used to the fact that you're not going to get to define what's 'sane' for everyone for much longer.
- arroz 4y agoGlobal south is not the majority of the population And I am from the global south, I don’t know anyone that thinks the US is a threat China and Russia on the other hand, yes, very much
- wruza 4y agoMay turn out that it’s not a threat in the same way you are not a threat to a homeless man. Until he takes over your job and puts a paid gate in his alley, of course. Then he’s fucked up, lost his goddamn mind and must be dealt with in the name of our freedom.
- qwertass 4y agoLol. Look a westerner giving us a lecture on how to behave again. There has not no empire more evil than western imperialism.
- amit9gupta 4y agoThe US is law abiding only when it is in their interest. The rest of the time they either flout law or bend it. How many other nations have effected: directly or covertly, the change in another countries leadership only for their own selfish interests? .. . as much as the US?
- arroz 4y agoAs much as the US none because no country has ever been this strong But it has happened China tried with Vietnam but failed Russia tried with Afghanistan but failed France under Napoleon could do a lot of stuff in continental Europe And the list goes on
- sneak 4y ago> While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. This is absolutely untrue. The CIA operates in clear violation of both US and foreign law and flaunts it, and they suffer no consequences whatsoever. The US is corrupt at the highest levels, with entire governmental organizations totally exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else.
- crisdux 4y agoThese days, the United States has proven they mainly follow the rules when it benefits them. So much for rules based international order. It's all unraveling as we return to a multi-polar world. History will probably look back and see the United States' global regime as starting off well. But it quickly engaged in the same brutalilty, lawlessness and arrogance as every other failed empire.
- KMag 4y agoThere are certainly manifold shameful aspects to US foreign policy. However, it does humanity a disservice to disregard the degree to which the US has tried to promote self-determination in the past 40 years. The US really tried to run free and fair elections in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Taliban and Al-Sadr-aligned parties were allowed to stand in elections. The majority Shia and Kurdish minorities in Iraq now have much more political representation than they had under the Ba'athists. The elections in Afghanistan showed that the US installed government was closer to majority opinion than the Taliban regimes before or after. The many shameful aspects of US foreign policy absolutely should be brought to light, but that doesn't mean retreating to defeatist nihilism. There can be something new under the sun, and US occupations of the past 40 years have been markedly different from previous empires. It's not enough progress as a society, but it is progress.
- bshepard 4y agoInvading a country is the opposite of self-determination, and justifying invasion based on an abstracted universalism was also used by the British empire.
- KMag 4y agoMaybe I should have used the term "popular self-determinism". If the result is the government better represents the will of the populace at large, then popular self-determinism is improved, even if externally imposed.
- 4y ago
- xwolfi 4y agoI am a bit unnerved each time I read an american using this self referential logic that the US are good because the US are good. We dont all want to live in a theocratic bi-party corporatist paradise, crushed by personal loans to cure grandma s broken leg, to exgaerate a bit. I live in China and while I dislike the communists just as much as the next guy, I'm quite unsure what's so good about the US. It's just as much a giant country blabbering all day long about how we should be their protectorate (I'm French), a lot like China... But yeah let s not be afraid to say China, Xi in particular, are in an endless dictator trap, covering the crimes of the past with the crimes of the present. I just wouldnt put all my bets on the US evolving better just because God wrote their constitution or whatever else they think make them so virtuous.
- Ozzie_osman 4y ago> Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. > I don’t know why anyone would be afraid to say this. Probably because it's not that they are afraid, they simply don't agree. For many people around the world, the US and Europe have inflicted far greater problems over the past 0-100 years.
- chii 4y agoand by defining their opinion on the past rather than the current geopolitical environment, they would be prone to fall prey to china and russian influence. If they've got to be under the thumb of some foreign power, they ought to choose the US over china or russia. At least in a democracy, there's ways to change the public opinion.
- lenkite 4y ago"and by defining their opinion on the past rather than the current geopolitical environment" Yeah, who cares about the bad stuff 3-5-10-20 years in the past! All those US wars and coups are not applicable since the USA has turned into a bright, shiny fairy now! "If they've got to be under the thumb of some foreign power, they ought to choose the US over china or russia." Yeah, the US holding a gun to your head and saying: You are either with us or against us. Many nations want to make their own independent sovereign choice. Your diplomats actually use this language when they feel they can push folks around.
- arroz 4y agoWell if you put bad things in the past 3-5 years, China and Russia have a lot on their hands Russia: uses their natural resources as weapons, invaded Ukraine, supports dictatorship in Syria China: embargoes anyone that dares to have a relationship with Taiwan or talks bad about the CCP, provokes Taiwan like crazy, likely will invade it in the next 10 years This is just the recent stuff, China has invaded Vietnam and fought against UN coalition that was protecting South Korea against North Korea aggression Russia has done so much ** i am going to take too long to write And these are only what affect other countries, they have done horrible things to their domestic population as well…
- recroad 4y ago> I don’t know why anyone would be afraid to say this. For free of being called xenophobic and racist.
- lifeformed 4y agoYou're the only one in this thread bringing that up.
- colordrops 4y agoThe simplistic language if your post reads as blind patriotism or jingoism. To suggest that the US is more law abiding is absurd, considering the countless wars of agression and covert actions. The problem with any debate on this subject is that every evil action by the US is "justified" somehow, and every action by others is the work of madman dictator, and by default wrong. It's impossible to discuss. Edit: to be clear, I don't condone China's actions. I see both the US and China as very bad actors on the world stage.
- notyourwork 4y agoWhy is it surprisingly that simple? You lost me with that claim and I’m a suspicious US citizen.
- Calvin02 4y agoWell, let me try it this way: if massively popular social networks weren’t a threat, both China and Russia wouldn’t have cared about Twitter, Facebook, or any other “western” internet company operating in their countries. Clearly, they think that these are important sovereignty issues such that they’ve clamped down or disallowed these services entirely. The ability to manipulate people via state sponsored algorithmic tweaks to TikTok’s ranking algorithm is a powerful tool. You don’t need to do much to sour US’s support for Taiwan in the eyes of just a minority. Or you don’t need to do much to tweak the algorithm such that content about politicians friendly to China is ranked higher than others.
- lenkite 4y agoIt's not just Russia and China. Most nations have realised that these large social networks have selective censoring and US tilted "fact-checking". Many, many nations are clamping down, banning, restricting or raising applicable laws to limit the damage of these social-media "services".
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- garmanarnar 4y agoWas the US obeying the law when they invaded Iraq leading to the death of 400,000 Iraqi civilians?
- lenkite 4y ago> Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. For many parts of the world, the USA is the biggest threat and tyrant in the world causing significant pain, loss and helplessness for hundreds of millions. Usually followed by deep hatred. I know folks who have lost their entire family to the USA. Unlike Ukraine, US acts of civilian violence rarely make the news or if they do, they are glossed over.
- lenkite 4y ago"undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII." Only an American/NATO nation citizen can believe this utter nonsense. The only rules being followed were the ones the USA laid out with its military fist, crushing of the opposition and sponsored coups - all in their favour. Now that they finally have a serious competitor, the US is getting antsy. I am frankly speaking utterly glad for China's ascent. It will keep the USA in check (somewhat).
- arroz 4y agoYeah great, a xenophobic, homophobic dictatorship will keep the USA in check! First thing in agenda: invade Taiwan and cause a chip shortage in the world that will cause the greatest economic crisis you will ever see!
- lenkite 4y agoThe USA is creating a significant oil and energy crisis today by sanctioning the big 3 oil producing nations: Iran, Venezuela and Russia, leading to economic collapse and famine in several nations. But its all cool and great because the US are the "good" guys. Who cares if a few million citizens of the third world die ? They should know their place after all - being crushed under the American boot. More people are dying in Yemen every-day thanks to US embargoes and US weapons than in Ukraine, but not a whiff about it in Western news. No photos of Yemeni mothers holding dead children. No photos of limbs being blasted off by US supplied bombs. Americans who support their military and state are ignorant, sanctimonious hypocrites of the highest order.
- wangii 4y agowhen was the last time China invaded another country and killed hundreds of thousands? I really not interested in arguing good vs. evil, China VS US, but your blindness is just amazing!
- arroz 4y agoI think it was Vietnam, after US vs Vietnam Though the Chinese are everyday provoking Taiwan like crazy nowadays and does a hell lot of economic coercion to other countries They also had some recent borders disputes with India which did end up with deaths
- tartuffe78 4y agoGood thing the US doesn't do any of that economic coercion...
- LunaSea 4y agoHong Kong, Tibet, maybe Taiwan next?
- lmz 4y agoHK was returned, freed from colonial rule, not invaded.
- LunaSea 4y ago> HK was returned, freed from colonial rule, not invaded. I'm sure that Hong Kongers see it that way ahahaha.
- garmanarnar 4y agoThe UK treated Hong Kongers as second class citizens. They censored newspapers and history books, only allowing those which agreed with imperialist Britain. They then suppressed any autonomy in Hong Kong for decades, installing a ruthless puppet government.
- _tik_ 4y ago"more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII" What rules and order that justified by Invading Iraq
- arroz 4y agoYeah the US invaded Irak many years ago. Today we have Russia invading Irak and China threatening to invade Taiwan.
- galactus 4y agoYou have to understand that, for the rest of the world, seeing the US act is if invading another country was the worst thing anyone could do is highly hopocritical
- tigerBL00D 4y agoLuckily this kind of unsubstantiated trash comment is rare on this forum. This is really not the place to vent your crazy political theories.
- dylan604 4y agoI get what you're saying, but... Why are we letting FB off the hook? Why are we letting any of the platforms that harvest data off the hook? FB tweaked their algos to literally see if they could fuck with people's moods. They know the power they hold, and they constantly refine it to keep people's attention. At some point if FB promoted via algo something that riles up a group of people against another group of people to the point of violence, how is that any less bad? Especially, since that's what has happened?
- baby 4y ago> China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. And people wonder why we’re so divided
- jeanlou 4y agoA treat to what world? A treat to the western dominated world, with rules that only favour them. Not abiding to whose law? Those international laws that even the US and its allies would not respect when it's not convinient to their agenda and narrative. This has led to the destruction of Irak, Libya, the killing of Lumumba, and scores of other exemples across all continents. The western world has been responsible for destructions and destabilisations all in the name of ensuring the economical and political future of their countries. The West would happily support and never critise authoritarian regimes such as Rwanda just because it's convinient to them, and in the same sentence accuse China and Russia. I've never seen calls for democracy in place of the Kagame's regime for example. You are failing to see the forrest for the trees, and at the same time overlooking so many details just to prove a point.
- lm28469 4y ago> Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It's all perspective, China and Russia say the exact same thing about the US. Can't believe people still fail for that kind of propaganda...
- pedrolucasp 4y ago>threats to the world Essentially threats to folks up north. Down here (in Latin America) and other places such as the entirely of Asian and African countries, US has been a threat since it exists. US is still moving it's pieces here in Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador. Not to mention espionage on half of the world (thanks WikiLeaks)
- caeril 4y agoAs a US citizen, I'd rather a foreign power with no jurisdiction here gobble up my data than the local jackboots with a rubberstamp judge who can execute a no-knock raid on my home whenever they feel like, predicated on dubious suspicion elicited by whatever precrime data-mining operation they're running. China isn't going to shoot my dog at 4am and throw me in a concrete box. And if I were a Chinese or Russian citizen, I'd be far more wary of domestic apps than US apps for precisely the same reason. Not playing favorites here, it's just a jurisdictional arbitrage question in a world dominated by tyranny.
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago> Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. If you bring together three people from USA, Russia, China then none of them will have trouble naming the two biggest threats. None of them will agree, but they’ll all name 2 of the same 3 anyone from anywhere in the rest of the world would name.