5 ms·

Indeed, abortion is legal in China[1], the last time a police officer killed someone was in 2019[2] and their incarceration rate is 5x lower[3]. [1] https://en

Indeed, abortion is legal in China[1], the last time a police officer killed someone was in 2019[2] and their incarceration rate is 5x lower[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_China [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

stale2002 4y ago
Look if you disagree that china is more authoritarian, then I would encourage you to go there, and make a large amount of public statements making fun of their leaders, or saying that Taiwan in a country, (while in china). And to do it in a public and viral way, and see how it works out for you.
- gardenhedge 4y ago
  Please don't do this.
lostmsu 4y ago
The police in China doesn't kill with guns. It kills by preventing people from demanding better healthcare. The same goes for incarceration. In US 3M people can't use Internet due to being incarcerated, but in China more than 1.5B have significant restrictions. (This is just an example for the idea of total restricted freedom)
- okasaki 4y ago
  > The police in China doesn't kill with guns. It kills by preventing people from demanding better healthcare. Given the efforts that China has put in to stopping the spread of cov19 over the past 2 years, that seems delusional. Also, Chinese life expectancy has exceeded the US now[1] [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-falls-behind-china https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-fa... > The same goes for incarceration. In US 3M people can't use Internet due to being incarcerated, but in China more than 1.5B have significant restrictions. (This is just an example for the idea of total restricted freedom) All countries have restricted interactions on the internet. Go ahead and google how to make a pressure cooker bomb and see how long you have a job after the secret service starts asking your employer questions about you, or download some songs and get sued 150k per song by the RIAA. Given the head start by foreign countries and the radical nature of the internet (totally different way to communicate) some caution and restrictions probably aren't out of order.
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    As I mentioned below, your first link is poorly sourced. As for your second one, your attempt to claim the restrictions are similar is going into wrong ears here. Both the cooker claim and the songs claim are laughable.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > It kills by preventing people from demanding better healthcare. If you're American, this is the most "throwing stones in a glass house" accusation to make about another country.
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    United States is above China in life expectancy averages. My impression was that the healthcare here is very expensive, but not bad. Besides, US does not prevent people from demanding better.
    - okasaki 4y ago
      Not anymore: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-falls-behind-china https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-fa...
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        That article is poorly sourced.
meowtimemania 4y ago
It's ironic you even mention abortion, given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until 2015, and then 3 child policy until 2021. Is not the government's absolute power to control family size the most blaring example of authoritarianism?
- shrimp_emoji 4y ago
  In the West, the abortion thing is a (ideally immutable) moral line in the sand. In China, it's just an instrument the state turns on and off as needed for population control. The difference in approaches is so interesting.
- trasz 4y ago
  >given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until [citation needed]. Various accounts I've seen claimed it was more like a financial fine; forced abortions sound like Zenz-type fabrication.
  - lmm 4y ago
    Officially there was only the massive financial incentive. However local officials also had financial incentives to keep birth rates low in their areas, and many of them resorted to more direct coercion, which is widely thought to have been a not entirely unintended consequence.
    - trasz 4y ago
      That sounds plausible. Do we have any stats on this?
  - meowtimemania 4y ago
    If you are given a choice between financial fine or abortion, and there's nothing you realistically can do to afford the fine, wouldn't you say the abortion is forced?
thaumasiotes 4y ago
> and their incarceration rate is 5x lower You should see our incarceration rate for Chinese Americans. > abortion is legal in China I'd have to say, between abortions being prohibited and abortions being mandatory, the mandatory abortions are significantly worse.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  forced births cause deaths
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    So does everything else.
gardenhedge 4y ago
If you're an avid TikTok user, maybe the algorithm is already working and your post is proving the skeptics point?
_-david-_ 4y ago
Do you actually believe China?

stale2002 4y ago

Look if you disagree that china is more authoritarian, then I would encourage you to go there, and make a large amount of public statements making fun of their leaders, or saying that Taiwan in a country, (while in china). And to do it in a public and viral way, and see how it works out for you.

gardenhedge 4y ago
Please don't do this.

lostmsu 4y ago

The police in China doesn't kill with guns. It kills by preventing people from demanding better healthcare. The same goes for incarceration. In US 3M people can't use Internet due to being incarcerated, but in China more than 1.5B have significant restrictions. (This is just an example for the idea of total restricted freedom)

okasaki 4y ago
> The police in China doesn't kill with guns. It kills by preventing people from demanding better healthcare. Given the efforts that China has put in to stopping the spread of cov19 over the past 2 years, that seems delusional. Also, Chinese life expectancy has exceeded the US now[1] [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-falls-behind-china https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-fa... > The same goes for incarceration. In US 3M people can't use Internet due to being incarcerated, but in China more than 1.5B have significant restrictions. (This is just an example for the idea of total restricted freedom) All countries have restricted interactions on the internet. Go ahead and google how to make a pressure cooker bomb and see how long you have a job after the secret service starts asking your employer questions about you, or download some songs and get sued 150k per song by the RIAA. Given the head start by foreign countries and the radical nature of the internet (totally different way to communicate) some caution and restrictions probably aren't out of order.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  As I mentioned below, your first link is poorly sourced. As for your second one, your attempt to claim the restrictions are similar is going into wrong ears here. Both the cooker claim and the songs claim are laughable.
AlexandrB 4y ago
> It kills by preventing people from demanding better healthcare. If you're American, this is the most "throwing stones in a glass house" accusation to make about another country.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  United States is above China in life expectancy averages. My impression was that the healthcare here is very expensive, but not bad. Besides, US does not prevent people from demanding better.
  - okasaki 4y ago
    Not anymore: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-falls-behind-china https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7vevb/us-life-expectancy-fa...
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      That article is poorly sourced.

meowtimemania 4y ago

It's ironic you even mention abortion, given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until 2015, and then 3 child policy until 2021. Is not the government's absolute power to control family size the most blaring example of authoritarianism?

shrimp_emoji 4y ago
In the West, the abortion thing is a (ideally immutable) moral line in the sand. In China, it's just an instrument the state turns on and off as needed for population control. The difference in approaches is so interesting.
trasz 4y ago
>given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until [citation needed]. Various accounts I've seen claimed it was more like a financial fine; forced abortions sound like Zenz-type fabrication.
- lmm 4y ago
  Officially there was only the massive financial incentive. However local officials also had financial incentives to keep birth rates low in their areas, and many of them resorted to more direct coercion, which is widely thought to have been a not entirely unintended consequence.
  - trasz 4y ago
    That sounds plausible. Do we have any stats on this?
- meowtimemania 4y ago
  If you are given a choice between financial fine or abortion, and there's nothing you realistically can do to afford the fine, wouldn't you say the abortion is forced?

thaumasiotes 4y ago

> and their incarceration rate is 5x lower You should see our incarceration rate for Chinese Americans. > abortion is legal in China I'd have to say, between abortions being prohibited and abortions being mandatory, the mandatory abortions are significantly worse.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
forced births cause deaths
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  So does everything else.

gardenhedge 4y ago

If you're an avid TikTok user, maybe the algorithm is already working and your post is proving the skeptics point?

_-david-_ 4y ago

Do you actually believe China?