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In what world does it make sense to allow a country who blocks access to their market unrestricted access to the US market? If china is a rival to the US, why

by lumost 4y ago

In what world does it make sense to allow a country who blocks access to their market unrestricted access to the US market? If china is a rival to the US, why do they have one of the most favorable trade deals?

sudosysgen 4y ago
Because it's not true that they have unrestricted access to the US market, see Huawei, ZTE, etc... And it's not true they have one of the most favourable trade deals, many tariffs are still in effect.
- Teever 4y ago
  But surely you see that there is a difference in how China regulates American companies operating in China and vice versa? Perhaps the US should adopt a tit for tat policy with regards to China in this matter?
  - bigcat12345678 4y ago
    What's the importance of means to an end? US rules the world through a liberal voting political propaganda; a rule-based capitalism market economy; a USD denominated financial structure. Sure, US blocked Huawei through rule of law; and you think China has no laws to block FB & Google? But behind the cloak of laws regulations, the intention of mutual exclusion is pure and same, nothing different.
gampleman 4y ago
One of these countries spent a century preaching to the world the benefits of free trade, the other ridding itself of the capitalist class. So the issue from the point of view of the rest of the world is that the US should practice what they preach even in the one case where that would mean allowing some mild competition to their massive and insanely profitable internet monopolies.
SkinTaco 4y ago
> If china is a rival to the US, why do they have one of the most favorable trade deals? I don't have an answer for you, but when you rephrase the point you're getting at it's easy to see there are plenty of valid reasons, because this is not true: > There are no reasons for the US to give a favorable trade deal to a country that is otherwise a rival
- lumost 4y ago
  You claim you don’t have an answer, but then state that by simple rephrasing the answer is obvious? Can you specify a specific reason? There are historic examples of trade deals made for this reason such as with the Soviet Union or communist china. However I cannot think of an example where a country has given unilaterally favorable trade terms to a rival except out of fealty/tribute.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  There is a difference between letting China export low value added products with many producers vs a literal spy in your bedroom. Is this now US policy too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCqXlDjx18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCqXlDjx18
paulcole 4y ago
A world where we want $29 microwaves and iPhones produced 24/7 and delivered to our doorstep. People in America need China in order to keep living the lives we have.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  I'm not so sure that is really true anymore. I think that was the case in the past, when most manufacturing was very labor intensive. But now, so much is automated that things could be made anywhere for almost as cheap. Unfortunately, the US doesn't really have the infrastructure and capabilities to do so now.
  - naavis 4y ago
    So effectively they couldn't be made just anywhere, if they can't be made in the US?
  - paulcole 4y ago
    If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry christmas.
  - jpgvm 4y ago
    A long time ago it was about labour costs but that isn't been true for over 2 decades. manufacturing anywhere outside of China can't compete with China anymore because of critical mass of supply chain. You should visit Shenzen and you will quickly understand why there is no place in the world like it and why there probably never will be. Hearing that people think you can 'just' replicate Shenzen somewhere else makes me giggle. Unfortunately for the US it also goes for batteries and other green energy tech that the US turned their back on in favour of oil these past decades. You can't just replicate Xinjiang polysilicon production, without which we can't have PV solar cells, also primarily made in China. CATL is probably the largest manufacturer of EV class batteries in the world. China makes more EVs than the rest of the world many times over, etc. Now they are also leading in nuclear, rolling out 200GW of next-gen reactors, they have their own fusion experiments. They have been leading in AI research for the last 10+ years. The days of China being cheaper are long long gone. You go to China because you can get access to talent, work ethic and optimised supply chain + logistics that can't be bought anywhere else on earth for any price. That dominance isn't going to be easily displaced because it's the product of decades of investment and R&D.
tchalla 4y ago
In the world where US controls the petrodollar system. That world.

by lumost 4y ago

sudosysgen 4y ago

Because it's not true that they have unrestricted access to the US market, see Huawei, ZTE, etc... And it's not true they have one of the most favourable trade deals, many tariffs are still in effect.

Teever 4y ago
But surely you see that there is a difference in how China regulates American companies operating in China and vice versa? Perhaps the US should adopt a tit for tat policy with regards to China in this matter?
- bigcat12345678 4y ago
  What's the importance of means to an end? US rules the world through a liberal voting political propaganda; a rule-based capitalism market economy; a USD denominated financial structure. Sure, US blocked Huawei through rule of law; and you think China has no laws to block FB & Google? But behind the cloak of laws regulations, the intention of mutual exclusion is pure and same, nothing different.

gampleman 4y ago

One of these countries spent a century preaching to the world the benefits of free trade, the other ridding itself of the capitalist class. So the issue from the point of view of the rest of the world is that the US should practice what they preach even in the one case where that would mean allowing some mild competition to their massive and insanely profitable internet monopolies.

SkinTaco 4y ago

> If china is a rival to the US, why do they have one of the most favorable trade deals? I don't have an answer for you, but when you rephrase the point you're getting at it's easy to see there are plenty of valid reasons, because this is not true: > There are no reasons for the US to give a favorable trade deal to a country that is otherwise a rival

lumost 4y ago
You claim you don’t have an answer, but then state that by simple rephrasing the answer is obvious? Can you specify a specific reason? There are historic examples of trade deals made for this reason such as with the Soviet Union or communist china. However I cannot think of an example where a country has given unilaterally favorable trade terms to a rival except out of fealty/tribute.
thrown_22 4y ago
There is a difference between letting China export low value added products with many producers vs a literal spy in your bedroom. Is this now US policy too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCqXlDjx18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCqXlDjx18

paulcole 4y ago

A world where we want $29 microwaves and iPhones produced 24/7 and delivered to our doorstep. People in America need China in order to keep living the lives we have.

jjeaff 4y ago
I'm not so sure that is really true anymore. I think that was the case in the past, when most manufacturing was very labor intensive. But now, so much is automated that things could be made anywhere for almost as cheap. Unfortunately, the US doesn't really have the infrastructure and capabilities to do so now.
- naavis 4y ago
  So effectively they couldn't be made just anywhere, if they can't be made in the US?
- paulcole 4y ago
  If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry christmas.
- jpgvm 4y ago
  A long time ago it was about labour costs but that isn't been true for over 2 decades. manufacturing anywhere outside of China can't compete with China anymore because of critical mass of supply chain. You should visit Shenzen and you will quickly understand why there is no place in the world like it and why there probably never will be. Hearing that people think you can 'just' replicate Shenzen somewhere else makes me giggle. Unfortunately for the US it also goes for batteries and other green energy tech that the US turned their back on in favour of oil these past decades. You can't just replicate Xinjiang polysilicon production, without which we can't have PV solar cells, also primarily made in China. CATL is probably the largest manufacturer of EV class batteries in the world. China makes more EVs than the rest of the world many times over, etc. Now they are also leading in nuclear, rolling out 200GW of next-gen reactors, they have their own fusion experiments. They have been leading in AI research for the last 10+ years. The days of China being cheaper are long long gone. You go to China because you can get access to talent, work ethic and optimised supply chain + logistics that can't be bought anywhere else on earth for any price. That dominance isn't going to be easily displaced because it's the product of decades of investment and R&D.

tchalla 4y ago

In the world where US controls the petrodollar system. That world.