4 ms·

I hope that the US doesn’t ban TikTok. That would be a very bad outcome for the concept of an open internet. I do think more regulation are likely in order. Th

I hope that the US doesn’t ban TikTok. That would be a very bad outcome for the concept of an open internet. I do think more regulation are likely in order. There are some very good arguments for not letting children under a certain age to be allowed on the social media platforms. However, the enforcement of those laws is spotty and is left to parental controls. What we need is an outbreak of social media literacy among the youngest members of society. Like, this needs to be taught at school in first grade or something.

mantas 4y ago
Open internet is already dead. Now the question is if West defends or is it up for grabs for other countries that already built their own walled gardens.
yellow_postit 4y ago
Long have primary education financial and internet literacy been proposed but the pessimist in me sees a low likelihood of US-nationwide adoption of either given the polarization. Ironically due to those exact same issues. This seems like a classic case that needs some more direct regulatory intervention.
lumost 4y ago
This is effectively demanding an impossible solution to a present problem. Asking grade school children to weigh the geopolitical consequences of their cat videos is never going to happen. You’re talking about an age group which is still learning basic literacy. The solution is regulation, we already regulate children's television programming for this exact reason.
- curious_cat_163 4y ago
  I don't see how we disagree. If by "present problem" you mean, the fact that TikTok happens to have been built by a Chinese company, then I see what you mean. Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. Arguably, it would help, if we started early -- get them while they are young? I don't see what other long-term things that a democracy can do. Other than starting a war in the near-term, I suppose?
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    >In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. This is such a pie in the sky suggestion that I'm forced to wonder if you even pay attention to US politics. To give you some context some of the biggest issues in education right now is: 1. Arming teachers with rifles 2. Dismantling the public school system and replacing them with vouchers. The last federally mandated educational solution, No Child Left Behind, was a massive failure and has soured most future federally mandated educational policies. Asking underfunded teachers to teach 9 year olds why they shouldn't use the "funny cat app" because of complex geopolitics will end up ignored at best or lead to incredibly xenophobia at worst (Ms. Adams told me not to use TikTok because China is evil, henceforth all asians are out to trick me). >I don't see what other long-term things that a democracy can do. Actually enforce data privacy laws universally. Of course this will anger the Facebook/Google trillion dollar oligarchs so we are told there is nothing we can do. The crux of the issue is that US wants everyone else data (EU, Oceania, Asia) but it doesn't want other companies to do the same. Your solutions are either you ban it for hegemony reasons, and pray that Europe/India/Japan/Australia doesn't enact the same law, or you ban it for privacy reasons.
  - aparticulate 4y ago
    > Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. There's no way I would trust managers, certainly, their managers to not simply regurgitate the most "CNN-friendly" curriculum imaginable. Maybe pre-2015 I would agree. US education simply isn't a trustworthy system at the moment. The threat has already arrived and the good teachers are leaving in droves.
hunglee2 4y ago
same, I think the argument for open internet can only be made by example. However, there is no domestic political mileage in maintaining that position, vs plenty of political mileage in china bad policy making. He is out of office but we are in the trump timeline
OJFord 4y ago
Is that not already technically the case? It certainly is/was in the UK. And I assure you everyone was using whatever they wanted, including e.g. eBay which probably has more stringently regulated rules. It's a lot easier to lie about your age on a Facebook sign-up form than to buy drugs or alcohol, and teens will find a way to do the latter if they want to.
aparticulate 4y ago
>What we need is an outbreak of social media literacy among the youngest members of society. Like, this needs to be taught at school in first grade or something. I use TikTok loads and I'm completely onboard with the idea that it's extremely concerning for democracy. Nuanced education doesn't help any more than it would for say, healthy eating advocacy vs fast food industry. We need carrot and stick approaches.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  Imagine getting downvoted for what you just said lol. HN people can't be so out of contact with children to think they will make complex political decisions. All they want to see are funny dance and cat videos. I remember when I was a tween and early teens. All I cared about was decent grades, baseball, my crush, and my computer side jobs. I wouldn't have cared if tiktok was based in Iran as long as it entertained me.
  - ramblenode 4y ago
    You are also describing most adults.

mantas 4y ago

Open internet is already dead. Now the question is if West defends or is it up for grabs for other countries that already built their own walled gardens.

yellow_postit 4y ago

Long have primary education financial and internet literacy been proposed but the pessimist in me sees a low likelihood of US-nationwide adoption of either given the polarization. Ironically due to those exact same issues. This seems like a classic case that needs some more direct regulatory intervention.

lumost 4y ago

This is effectively demanding an impossible solution to a present problem. Asking grade school children to weigh the geopolitical consequences of their cat videos is never going to happen. You’re talking about an age group which is still learning basic literacy. The solution is regulation, we already regulate children's television programming for this exact reason.

curious_cat_163 4y ago
I don't see how we disagree. If by "present problem" you mean, the fact that TikTok happens to have been built by a Chinese company, then I see what you mean. Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. Arguably, it would help, if we started early -- get them while they are young? I don't see what other long-term things that a democracy can do. Other than starting a war in the near-term, I suppose?
- nemothekid 4y ago
  >In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. This is such a pie in the sky suggestion that I'm forced to wonder if you even pay attention to US politics. To give you some context some of the biggest issues in education right now is: 1. Arming teachers with rifles 2. Dismantling the public school system and replacing them with vouchers. The last federally mandated educational solution, No Child Left Behind, was a massive failure and has soured most future federally mandated educational policies. Asking underfunded teachers to teach 9 year olds why they shouldn't use the "funny cat app" because of complex geopolitics will end up ignored at best or lead to incredibly xenophobia at worst (Ms. Adams told me not to use TikTok because China is evil, henceforth all asians are out to trick me). >I don't see what other long-term things that a democracy can do. Actually enforce data privacy laws universally. Of course this will anger the Facebook/Google trillion dollar oligarchs so we are told there is nothing we can do. The crux of the issue is that US wants everyone else data (EU, Oceania, Asia) but it doesn't want other companies to do the same. Your solutions are either you ban it for hegemony reasons, and pray that Europe/India/Japan/Australia doesn't enact the same law, or you ban it for privacy reasons.
- aparticulate 4y ago
  > Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. There's no way I would trust managers, certainly, their managers to not simply regurgitate the most "CNN-friendly" curriculum imaginable. Maybe pre-2015 I would agree. US education simply isn't a trustworthy system at the moment. The threat has already arrived and the good teachers are leaving in droves.

hunglee2 4y ago

same, I think the argument for open internet can only be made by example. However, there is no domestic political mileage in maintaining that position, vs plenty of political mileage in china bad policy making. He is out of office but we are in the trump timeline

OJFord 4y ago

Is that not already technically the case? It certainly is/was in the UK. And I assure you everyone was using whatever they wanted, including e.g. eBay which probably has more stringently regulated rules. It's a lot easier to lie about your age on a Facebook sign-up form than to buy drugs or alcohol, and teens will find a way to do the latter if they want to.

aparticulate 4y ago

>What we need is an outbreak of social media literacy among the youngest members of society. Like, this needs to be taught at school in first grade or something. I use TikTok loads and I'm completely onboard with the idea that it's extremely concerning for democracy. Nuanced education doesn't help any more than it would for say, healthy eating advocacy vs fast food industry. We need carrot and stick approaches.

stjohnswarts 4y ago
Imagine getting downvoted for what you just said lol. HN people can't be so out of contact with children to think they will make complex political decisions. All they want to see are funny dance and cat videos. I remember when I was a tween and early teens. All I cared about was decent grades, baseball, my crush, and my computer side jobs. I wouldn't have cared if tiktok was based in Iran as long as it entertained me.
- ramblenode 4y ago
  You are also describing most adults.