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This problem seems endemic to big tech platforms, particularly when money is involved. I remember hearing similar stories about PayPal a decade ago (still do fo
by ojkelly 4y ago
This problem seems endemic to big tech platforms, particularly when money is involved. I remember hearing similar stories about PayPal a decade ago (still do for what it’s worth).
While I can understand the desire to not interact with a user of the platform (shopify, google, PayPal, etc), because of the cost, and because many are likely to be bots or actually fraudulent. It’s precisely at these edge cases when computers and automated performs the worst.
These are the situations where the scenario is imperfectly modelled in the system. Maybe the engineers didn’t think of the edge case, or an ML model never had training data to cover it.
Point is, it doesn’t matter. People problems need people solutions. Remediating edge cases involving people’s livelihoods strikes me as most likely a people problem.
When you’re asking a person or company to trust them in a business relationship into the future, such as by being their shopfront, there’s only so many you can destroy before word gets around. I haven’t used or recommended businesses to use PayPal for a decade, because I saw them time and again inflict pain and financial stress with no recourse.
As another example, look at the general sentiment around Google Cloud. Would you build a business on top of it? Does that include an exit strategy to multi-cloud, because you’re unsure if they’ll support the service you use?
If you can’t scale to provide a human to help other humans caught in the edge cases of your own system, then you need to acknowledge you’re causing harm.
A dog food company that kills a puppy every week, is really a puppy killing company that sells dog food.
It’s a matter of perspective yes, but if you got into it to help feed dogs, surely the last thing you would want to do is harm them?
And if you became aware your killing puppies, would it not be the top priority to ensure it never happens again?
- imachine1980_ 4y agoWhat alternative for PayPal?, and what for cloud?( I know things like linode, but I mean big cloud).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tluyben2 4y agoThere are many alternatives for PayPal; stripe being one but there are many others as well that won’t totally screw you as merchant like PayPal does. I use a local one who actually defend me when there are chargebacks and I can visit and talk to a human in case of other issues.
- wawjgreen 4y agolocal Stripe? local "one" means what?
- franga2000 4y ago+1 for using local providers for critical infrastructure, especially financial stuff. If something like this happens to me and I can't achieve anything through support channels (which is already unlikely), I can get on a train and go bang on the provider's door within 3 hours.
- 42365767567 4y agoWhat's the "general sentiment" around Google Cloud?
- wodenokoto 4y agoHN seems to think it’s impossible to get access to a human, but I’ve had Google engineers fix my Python code that inexplicably didn’t work in a cloud function.
- Cederfjard 4y agoWhat tier support was this, and how long did you have to wait?
- johnywalks 4y agoNot just Google Cloud, any google service in general. If you have a problem or one of their "AI" systems locks you out, then you're out. No way to resolve the issue.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y agoPaypal lies and tells you you can take money out of a US account without linking, instead taking funds out via mailed check. But in fact it does not allow for this. The UX has a dark pattern that will lead you to think this option exists, but it will fail. Any mailed check attempt will end as an error. Customer service escalation confirms its not possible to take funds out without bank link. Instead of refunding 5k to customers and asking them to inconvenience themselves by paying again via ACH, we had to open a new bank account. I repeat. I went as far as opening a new bank account with a new banking institution that would be solely used to link to PayPal. Do not link paypal to any core business accounts. You really should segregate your core business accounts from any linking, stripe etc or yodlee-type service, if you can help it. Let the payment relationship be between your bank and your customer bank only. No middle man. No surprises
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y agoYou talk about automation, but a lot of these bad decisions are made by humans! Overworked and underpaid ones.