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How is it allowed for a dealer to cut wires and install a non OEM-approved electronic device onto the CAN bus? This seems like it would void all the manufacture

How is it allowed for a dealer to cut wires and install a non OEM-approved electronic device onto the CAN bus? This seems like it would void all the manufacturer warranties and potentially create liability for the manufacturer if it malfunctions.

AH4oFVbPT4f8 4y ago
Because they didn’t think they would get caught
userbinator 4y ago
This seems like it would void all the manufacturer warranties That's what the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty... is for.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  Not really... This is a complete hack job and I doubt there is a single component related to the electrical system that wouldn't be an easy denial from Honda unless the dealer played along... and in a modern car so much is tied to the electrical system that, while technically they didn't just void their entire warranty, they did just gut it to the point of being nearly useless.
judge2020 4y ago
Manufacturers must prove a modification to a car caused the fault in a product to deny an otherwise-covered warranty issue, regardless of who installed it. As for if this device kills the battery or what-have-you, i'm not sure what sort of liability the dealership is taking.
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  The law isn't limited to cars.
  - nopenopenopeno 4y ago
    The relevant context is, though.
  - franga2000 4y ago
    It is in practice. Rooting a smartphone? Overclocking your CPU? Replacing parts in a laptop?
    - gambiting 4y ago
      Replacing parts in a laptop absolutely does not void your warranty no matter what the manufacturer says.
      - franga2000 4y ago
        What do you mean "no matter what the manufacturer says"? If the manufacturer says your warranty is void - it is. If they broke a law in doing so is a separate issue that you would have to battle out in court. When your 800$ laptop's speakers start buzzing and the service center says you need to pay 80$ for the repair because the tamper seal on the RAM was broken, are you really going to spend 30k and a year of your free time to sue them over it?
        hedora 4y ago
        If you can get the big company to say they're denying the warranty for that reason in writing, you could probably find a no-win, no-pay lawyer to file an eight digit class action lawsuit. They know that as well as you do. I've found they usually do more passive aggressive / ambiguous stuff than overtly break the law. Once we had a Toshiba laptop with a bad motherboard. They replaced it with some other board that didn't have drivers for Linux, or even for Windows. Lenovo took over thirty days to repair my IBM thinkpad (broken screen connector), and when it came back, the high voltage screen transformer was shorted to the case, so it shocked the heck out of me when I turned it on. On top of that, they didn't replace the broken screen connector, and claimed it was "no fault". This was after the local lenovo repair people found the fault, and lenovo said they couldn't ship the required part.
- themulticaster 4y ago
  Does this apply even if the manufacturer adds a clause like "any modification not authorized by [manufacturer] or performed by a [manufacturer]-approved repair shop voids the warranty"?
  - judge2020 4y ago
    It doesn’t matter what the manufacturer says, they cant void the entire car’s warranty due to a modification. If a 3p repair shop performs eg. a brake pad replacement and then your brakes fail, then that repair shop is liable and not the manufacturer.
hedora 4y ago
When we bought a brand new GMC, Dealer A installed a counterfeit backup camera. Half a tank of gas later, Dealer B claimed the warranty was void because of the camera. We brought it in because the radio kept freaking out and it would drain the battery if left off over night. There was an active recall for both those issues. Dealer C fixed them by installing a firmware update.
- api 4y ago
  Has anyone ever had an actual good experience with an auto dealer?
  - temp_praneshp 4y ago
    We got a car two weeks ago, the experience at the Acura dealership was pretty good (of course, we got presented the bullshit warranty stuff in the finance manager's room, but we were able to turn everything down for a couple of minutes and things were ok). We also had a good time at a Toyota dealership, but any car buying with them had a $6290 markup....
    - devoutsalsa 4y ago
      Next time try generating the sales documentation using markdown.
      - temp_praneshp 4y ago
        Re. markdown, why should I? Also, what's sales documentation, is that something I should have received? Given the state of the market, choosing between many cars wasn't an option, but outside of that, I care that the process is fast, there aren't sneaky charges, and the interaction is respectful. I prefer all my paperwork printed out, and that's what they did by default.
        thr0w__4w4y 4y ago
        Whhooossh moment. You said there was a $6K /markup/, parent was making a joke about /markdown/.

AH4oFVbPT4f8 4y ago

Because they didn’t think they would get caught

userbinator 4y ago

This seems like it would void all the manufacturer warranties That's what the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty... is for.

BoorishBears 4y ago
Not really... This is a complete hack job and I doubt there is a single component related to the electrical system that wouldn't be an easy denial from Honda unless the dealer played along... and in a modern car so much is tied to the electrical system that, while technically they didn't just void their entire warranty, they did just gut it to the point of being nearly useless.

judge2020 4y ago

Manufacturers must prove a modification to a car caused the fault in a product to deny an otherwise-covered warranty issue, regardless of who installed it. As for if this device kills the battery or what-have-you, i'm not sure what sort of liability the dealership is taking.

NonNefarious 4y ago
The law isn't limited to cars.
- nopenopenopeno 4y ago
  The relevant context is, though.
- franga2000 4y ago
  It is in practice. Rooting a smartphone? Overclocking your CPU? Replacing parts in a laptop?
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Replacing parts in a laptop absolutely does not void your warranty no matter what the manufacturer says.
    - franga2000 4y ago
      What do you mean "no matter what the manufacturer says"? If the manufacturer says your warranty is void - it is. If they broke a law in doing so is a separate issue that you would have to battle out in court. When your 800$ laptop's speakers start buzzing and the service center says you need to pay 80$ for the repair because the tamper seal on the RAM was broken, are you really going to spend 30k and a year of your free time to sue them over it?
      - hedora 4y ago
        If you can get the big company to say they're denying the warranty for that reason in writing, you could probably find a no-win, no-pay lawyer to file an eight digit class action lawsuit. They know that as well as you do. I've found they usually do more passive aggressive / ambiguous stuff than overtly break the law. Once we had a Toshiba laptop with a bad motherboard. They replaced it with some other board that didn't have drivers for Linux, or even for Windows. Lenovo took over thirty days to repair my IBM thinkpad (broken screen connector), and when it came back, the high voltage screen transformer was shorted to the case, so it shocked the heck out of me when I turned it on. On top of that, they didn't replace the broken screen connector, and claimed it was "no fault". This was after the local lenovo repair people found the fault, and lenovo said they couldn't ship the required part.
themulticaster 4y ago
Does this apply even if the manufacturer adds a clause like "any modification not authorized by [manufacturer] or performed by a [manufacturer]-approved repair shop voids the warranty"?
- judge2020 4y ago
  It doesn’t matter what the manufacturer says, they cant void the entire car’s warranty due to a modification. If a 3p repair shop performs eg. a brake pad replacement and then your brakes fail, then that repair shop is liable and not the manufacturer.

hedora 4y ago

When we bought a brand new GMC, Dealer A installed a counterfeit backup camera. Half a tank of gas later, Dealer B claimed the warranty was void because of the camera. We brought it in because the radio kept freaking out and it would drain the battery if left off over night. There was an active recall for both those issues. Dealer C fixed them by installing a firmware update.

api 4y ago
Has anyone ever had an actual good experience with an auto dealer?
- temp_praneshp 4y ago
  We got a car two weeks ago, the experience at the Acura dealership was pretty good (of course, we got presented the bullshit warranty stuff in the finance manager's room, but we were able to turn everything down for a couple of minutes and things were ok). We also had a good time at a Toyota dealership, but any car buying with them had a $6290 markup....
  - devoutsalsa 4y ago
    Next time try generating the sales documentation using markdown.
    - temp_praneshp 4y ago
      Re. markdown, why should I? Also, what's sales documentation, is that something I should have received? Given the state of the market, choosing between many cars wasn't an option, but outside of that, I care that the process is fast, there aren't sneaky charges, and the interaction is respectful. I prefer all my paperwork printed out, and that's what they did by default.
      - thr0w__4w4y 4y ago
        Whhooossh moment. You said there was a $6K /markup/, parent was making a joke about /markdown/.