9 ms·

At least in France, a series of antibiotics are not allowed to be used/sold outside of hospitals. This is to ensure that hospitals have some last resort antibio

by Loic 4y ago

At least in France, a series of antibiotics are not allowed to be used/sold outside of hospitals. This is to ensure that hospitals have some last resort antibiotics in hard cases. But even with that, they have issues. In Germany, where I live at the moment, the risks and issues are well known and talked about. I have seen a large reduction of the prescription of antibiotics. The younger the MD, the less antibiotics are given. But 80% (maybe even more) of the antibiotics are used by animal farming...

voisin 4y ago
> But 80% (maybe even more) of the antibiotics are used by animal farming... This is what needs to be talked about more. Like guns in the US, or telecom oligopolies in Canada, it seems animal based agriculture gets the “thoughts and prayers” treatment rather than any substantive discussion about what harm it is causing the planet, human health, and biological safety via antibiotic resistance.
- nradov 4y ago
  The FDA is actively working on this issue. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicrobial-resistance https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr...
- Terry_Roll 4y ago
  It is. https://www.worldanimalprotection.org.uk/sites/default/files/media/Superbugs-on-UK-supermarket-shelves-report-final.pdf https://www.worldanimalprotection.org.uk/sites/default/files... 1ml of sea water will contain billions of phages, but its pot luck if you get the right strain. Another thing not mentioned with antibiotics is man y are penicillin based that when metabolised become penicillamine which is used to treat copper toxicity or Wilson's disease, ie it makes the liver dump copper out of the body. Copper is needed to produce Interleukin-2, a naturally occurring chemo drug, most effective when injected into tumours, but having naturally high levels circulating can be helpful as a prevention measure. Creatine when metabolised becomes creatinine which in sufficient qty can kill gram positive and gram negative bacteria. If you get 3rd degree burns, the muscles catabolise to release creatine and then the creatinine helps to keep bacteria at bay with the wounds. It probably also explains why the US military are reportedly the only one's to use copper sulphate to debride battlefield wounds. Even the WHO dont recommend using it! Copper sulphate will dissolve skin though. Vitamin D also increases creatinine, and because creatinine is used for estimated glomular filtration rate kidney tests, high levels of creatinine can make you appear to have various stages of kidney disease. Medical lab tests (human and veterinary) can not tell if you are supplementing so dont get an inaccurate diagnosis.
- refurb 4y ago
  The FDA already banned human antibiotic use in farm animals except to actually treat infections. The ban was a few years ago. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2018/12/fda-reports-major-drop-antibiotics-food-animals https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2018/12/fda-repo...
belorn 4y ago
It kind of worries me when people talk about reduction in prescription of antibiotics. If we are talking about primarily about false diagnoses and prescription of antibiotics when there exist equal or better treatment plans, then a reduction in antibiotics is good. The day when people got antibiotics in order to treat a cold is hopefully over. The cases that worries me most is however debilitating chronic illnesses (where antibiotics is used as a stop gap until medical science find a cure), and illnesses which if let untreated might turn into a debilitating chronic problem. I hope they are keeping a close watch on the outcomes from those younger MDs. Antibiotics in animal farming is obviously terrible. Animals should not be allowed to be kept unless it is in an environment that is safe and healthy for them. Antibiotics is a tool used to fix how poor some large scale farmers treat their animals.
- gwerbret 4y ago
  > The cases that worries me most is however debilitating chronic illnesses (where antibiotics is used as a stop gap until medical science find a cure) Which debilitating, non-bacterial chronic illnesses are treated with antibiotics as a stopgap measure?
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    Controversially but famously, "chronic Lyme disease" involves course of multiple super strong antibiotics over potentially years. Then things to try to save your organs from antibiotics. Then pills to help you digest those. Taking 50 pills on regular basis is apparently common enough.
  - Teever 4y ago
    not necessarily debilitating, but current treatments for rosacea include a low dose prescription of antibiotics like doxycycline, basically forever.
    - NikolaNovak 4y ago
      I have rosacea and it of course goes up and down. used tgel for a while then decided to only apply it to my right side of face. After a ~year there was never ever difference between two sides of my face, they went up and down together depending on temperature, environment, sweat, stress, food, etc. My doctor could not believe that I would try that, but it seemed a super simple way to check if all those antibiotics actually Did anything. For me at least they didn't.
EL_Loco 4y ago
I have a collection of antibiotic prescriptions that were routinely given to my kids at the public clinic (South American country here) at the smallest sign of a sore throat or some other infection. I didn't give them the antibiotics and my kids got well after a few days (they did take antibiotics whenever it was more serious). At the other end of the aisle, I have friends who will switch doctors if they don't prescribe their kids an antibiotic whenever there's a simple sore throat. A lot of doctors here will prescribe them right and left, just to be safe from any later criticism of not giving their patients enough medication. Oh, and I never had a doctor here ask for a test to see wether a throat infection was viral or bacterial.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
vjerancrnjak 4y ago
These measures that disallow use of antibiotics by humans are inhumane. For example, a chart in the article below shows huge growth in number of admissions after 2002 guidelines to replace full antibiotic therapy for acute UTI with 3-day antibiotic treatment. https://bjgplife.com/confronting-the-urinalysis-tyrant/ https://bjgplife.com/confronting-the-urinalysis-tyrant/ Your last sentence is the most probable cause of superbugs.

by Loic 4y ago

voisin 4y ago

> But 80% (maybe even more) of the antibiotics are used by animal farming... This is what needs to be talked about more. Like guns in the US, or telecom oligopolies in Canada, it seems animal based agriculture gets the “thoughts and prayers” treatment rather than any substantive discussion about what harm it is causing the planet, human health, and biological safety via antibiotic resistance.

nradov 4y ago
The FDA is actively working on this issue. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicrobial-resistance https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr...
Terry_Roll 4y ago
It is. https://www.worldanimalprotection.org.uk/sites/default/files/media/Superbugs-on-UK-supermarket-shelves-report-final.pdf https://www.worldanimalprotection.org.uk/sites/default/files... 1ml of sea water will contain billions of phages, but its pot luck if you get the right strain. Another thing not mentioned with antibiotics is man y are penicillin based that when metabolised become penicillamine which is used to treat copper toxicity or Wilson's disease, ie it makes the liver dump copper out of the body. Copper is needed to produce Interleukin-2, a naturally occurring chemo drug, most effective when injected into tumours, but having naturally high levels circulating can be helpful as a prevention measure. Creatine when metabolised becomes creatinine which in sufficient qty can kill gram positive and gram negative bacteria. If you get 3rd degree burns, the muscles catabolise to release creatine and then the creatinine helps to keep bacteria at bay with the wounds. It probably also explains why the US military are reportedly the only one's to use copper sulphate to debride battlefield wounds. Even the WHO dont recommend using it! Copper sulphate will dissolve skin though. Vitamin D also increases creatinine, and because creatinine is used for estimated glomular filtration rate kidney tests, high levels of creatinine can make you appear to have various stages of kidney disease. Medical lab tests (human and veterinary) can not tell if you are supplementing so dont get an inaccurate diagnosis.
refurb 4y ago
The FDA already banned human antibiotic use in farm animals except to actually treat infections. The ban was a few years ago. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2018/12/fda-reports-major-drop-antibiotics-food-animals https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2018/12/fda-repo...

belorn 4y ago

It kind of worries me when people talk about reduction in prescription of antibiotics. If we are talking about primarily about false diagnoses and prescription of antibiotics when there exist equal or better treatment plans, then a reduction in antibiotics is good. The day when people got antibiotics in order to treat a cold is hopefully over. The cases that worries me most is however debilitating chronic illnesses (where antibiotics is used as a stop gap until medical science find a cure), and illnesses which if let untreated might turn into a debilitating chronic problem. I hope they are keeping a close watch on the outcomes from those younger MDs. Antibiotics in animal farming is obviously terrible. Animals should not be allowed to be kept unless it is in an environment that is safe and healthy for them. Antibiotics is a tool used to fix how poor some large scale farmers treat their animals.

gwerbret 4y ago
> The cases that worries me most is however debilitating chronic illnesses (where antibiotics is used as a stop gap until medical science find a cure) Which debilitating, non-bacterial chronic illnesses are treated with antibiotics as a stopgap measure?
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Controversially but famously, "chronic Lyme disease" involves course of multiple super strong antibiotics over potentially years. Then things to try to save your organs from antibiotics. Then pills to help you digest those. Taking 50 pills on regular basis is apparently common enough.
- Teever 4y ago
  not necessarily debilitating, but current treatments for rosacea include a low dose prescription of antibiotics like doxycycline, basically forever.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    I have rosacea and it of course goes up and down. used tgel for a while then decided to only apply it to my right side of face. After a ~year there was never ever difference between two sides of my face, they went up and down together depending on temperature, environment, sweat, stress, food, etc. My doctor could not believe that I would try that, but it seemed a super simple way to check if all those antibiotics actually Did anything. For me at least they didn't.

EL_Loco 4y ago

I have a collection of antibiotic prescriptions that were routinely given to my kids at the public clinic (South American country here) at the smallest sign of a sore throat or some other infection. I didn't give them the antibiotics and my kids got well after a few days (they did take antibiotics whenever it was more serious). At the other end of the aisle, I have friends who will switch doctors if they don't prescribe their kids an antibiotic whenever there's a simple sore throat. A lot of doctors here will prescribe them right and left, just to be safe from any later criticism of not giving their patients enough medication. Oh, and I never had a doctor here ask for a test to see wether a throat infection was viral or bacterial.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

vjerancrnjak 4y ago

These measures that disallow use of antibiotics by humans are inhumane. For example, a chart in the article below shows huge growth in number of admissions after 2002 guidelines to replace full antibiotic therapy for acute UTI with 3-day antibiotic treatment. https://bjgplife.com/confronting-the-urinalysis-tyrant/ https://bjgplife.com/confronting-the-urinalysis-tyrant/ Your last sentence is the most probable cause of superbugs.