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I don’t understand why we need to make things personal: a multibillionaire with practically unlimited resources is negotiating with a multibillion dollar corpor

I don’t understand why we need to make things personal: a multibillionaire with practically unlimited resources is negotiating with a multibillion dollar corporation with practically unlimited resources. It’s clear that the offer Elon got stuck with has an unrealistic price at this point (and Elon just want a reason to get out of the deal), just like it’s clear that Twitter’s management is incompetent in the last few years. I just hope that there will be a lawsuit with juicy details so that I can get my popcorn, but I believe the 2 parties will settle.

roca 4y ago
Twitter management probably didn't have much choice but to accept the deal. Turning down an offer significantly above the stock price sounds like a trigger for a shareholder lawsuit.
addicted 4y ago
Elon only got stuck with it because he explicitly waived the right to due diligence which would have protected him from all this. He tried to act badass but came out looking like a dumbass. Everything since is his effort to get out of this (which he will…one of the nice things about having a lot of money is that it’s very hard to lose, no matter how illegal whatever you’re doing is), but is also trying to pretend he didn’t do something really really dumb. I see absolutely no reason to help Elon rewrite history especially when he could very well paid the penalty and walked away like he contractually agreed to, which would have ended the matter right there.
jollybean 4y ago
Twitter management is not incompetent, Musk set his own price. He should definitely pay a fine. You can't walk into a situation and cause major chaos - literally executive turnover, stock going crazy, all sorts of turmoil - and then walk away on bad faith and excuses. Also - he does not have unlimited resources. He literally cannot afford this deal right now.
- eftychis 4y ago
  He practically bought it; it's unlikely an agency or third party to intervene / object; only thing to "save" him is stating he doesn't have the monwy/funding was pulled due to lack of information. Even then, I doubt he would avoid it. Of course they can drag each other to the bottom until one gives up. I doubt Musk will and Twitter might have existential issues if it doesn't get bought with rumors related to their user base quality.
  - jollybean 4y ago
    The user base quality thing, irrespective of what the real answer is, is mostly a canard. The only way it could possibly get used is by Musk in the public commons to trash them. Other than that, this will be a side-show court battle now, unless one party has reason to continue arguing about it in public sphere.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  He can afford it, but not without causing further chaos to himself and his companies.
refurb 4y ago
Pretty much. It’s like selling a house and buyer makes an offer with no contingencies. Sure, you can sue them to close the deal but the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Does Twitter want to be locked into some multi-year court battle? They’ll settle and the news will move onto something else.
- TillE 4y ago
  It's not like there's another buyer out there offering $44 billion. Twitter has no reason to settle, unless maybe the stock price goes way up.
  - refurb 4y ago
    It’s like a divorce. You can either reach a settlement or spend a ton of money fighting for years. You imagine how distracting it would be for Twitter to have this in their quarterly updates? They certainly aren’t selling the company until it’s resolved. My prediction - lots of public tough talk, then a quiet resolution.
    - jogjayr 4y ago
      > spend a ton of money fighting for years Twitter is worth $28b and Musk's offer was $44b - a $16bn delta. The most annual revenue that a single law firm in the US has made is about $4bn.[1] Any amount Twitter could spend on lawyers is nothing compared to what they stand to make by winning. If you're accounting for whatever "toll" it takes on the company's leadership and employee morale, $16bn is about 2.75 years of operating expenses. Even if you assume every employee is operating at 50% mental capacity the entire time, it still makes sense to fight as long as it's over in <= 5 years. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_law_firms_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_law_firms_by_r...
    - CogitoCogito 4y ago
      > It’s like a divorce. You can either reach a settlement or spend a ton of money fighting for years. There's basically no way they could possibly spend even a tiny fraction of the overall deal's worth fighting this even if it went on for years. Not spending that money to fight this would really be stupid.
hey2022 4y ago
Twitter is a public company. We can not ignore the effect this situation has on the investors (regardless of whether someone thinks "they deserve it", or something equally irrelevant).
shalmanese 4y ago
Contracts matter. The ability for two parties to create a contract and to have reasonably secure knowledge that the state will still in and enforce the terms of the contract, using violence if necessary, is a massive foundational element to free market capitalism. We see in states where such an expectation is not present, that it becomes an enormous invisible drag on all business activity and degrades the civic functioning of society. One of the crowning achievements of Western Liberalism was the concept of "rule of law" and that there would exist an impartial, powerful judiciary independent of political power that could bring massive resources to bear to enforce contracts.
- mlyle 4y ago
  Yup. Else you have oligarchs and corruption and insider abuses. It hurts to see the way our institutions are rotting. (Not that they've ever been perfect, but I feel like we're on the decline and they need tending).
- xiphias2 4y ago
  You are right, and Twitter has the upper hand here. But there are always exceptions written in the contracts and Elon would be foolish not to spend a few million to try to trigger an exception to renegotiate the contract. It just makes business sense.
bambax 4y ago
> It’s clear that the offer Elon got stuck with has an unrealistic price at this point But that's not how it works. That's why we have contracts, and covenants, etc.: it's so that, if conditions change, one party cannot say "oops, sorry, changed my mind" and walk. (Also, the offer "Elon got stuck with" is his own, and even bears his childish signature of a weed joke.)
whiplash451 4y ago
Can you please elaborate on what makes it clear that Twitter management was incompetent in the last few years?

roca 4y ago

Twitter management probably didn't have much choice but to accept the deal. Turning down an offer significantly above the stock price sounds like a trigger for a shareholder lawsuit.

addicted 4y ago

Elon only got stuck with it because he explicitly waived the right to due diligence which would have protected him from all this. He tried to act badass but came out looking like a dumbass. Everything since is his effort to get out of this (which he will…one of the nice things about having a lot of money is that it’s very hard to lose, no matter how illegal whatever you’re doing is), but is also trying to pretend he didn’t do something really really dumb. I see absolutely no reason to help Elon rewrite history especially when he could very well paid the penalty and walked away like he contractually agreed to, which would have ended the matter right there.

jollybean 4y ago

Twitter management is not incompetent, Musk set his own price. He should definitely pay a fine. You can't walk into a situation and cause major chaos - literally executive turnover, stock going crazy, all sorts of turmoil - and then walk away on bad faith and excuses. Also - he does not have unlimited resources. He literally cannot afford this deal right now.

eftychis 4y ago
He practically bought it; it's unlikely an agency or third party to intervene / object; only thing to "save" him is stating he doesn't have the monwy/funding was pulled due to lack of information. Even then, I doubt he would avoid it. Of course they can drag each other to the bottom until one gives up. I doubt Musk will and Twitter might have existential issues if it doesn't get bought with rumors related to their user base quality.
- jollybean 4y ago
  The user base quality thing, irrespective of what the real answer is, is mostly a canard. The only way it could possibly get used is by Musk in the public commons to trash them. Other than that, this will be a side-show court battle now, unless one party has reason to continue arguing about it in public sphere.
kzrdude 4y ago
He can afford it, but not without causing further chaos to himself and his companies.

refurb 4y ago

Pretty much. It’s like selling a house and buyer makes an offer with no contingencies. Sure, you can sue them to close the deal but the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Does Twitter want to be locked into some multi-year court battle? They’ll settle and the news will move onto something else.

TillE 4y ago
It's not like there's another buyer out there offering $44 billion. Twitter has no reason to settle, unless maybe the stock price goes way up.
- refurb 4y ago
  It’s like a divorce. You can either reach a settlement or spend a ton of money fighting for years. You imagine how distracting it would be for Twitter to have this in their quarterly updates? They certainly aren’t selling the company until it’s resolved. My prediction - lots of public tough talk, then a quiet resolution.
  - jogjayr 4y ago
    > spend a ton of money fighting for years Twitter is worth $28b and Musk's offer was $44b - a $16bn delta. The most annual revenue that a single law firm in the US has made is about $4bn.[1] Any amount Twitter could spend on lawyers is nothing compared to what they stand to make by winning. If you're accounting for whatever "toll" it takes on the company's leadership and employee morale, $16bn is about 2.75 years of operating expenses. Even if you assume every employee is operating at 50% mental capacity the entire time, it still makes sense to fight as long as it's over in <= 5 years. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_law_firms_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_law_firms_by_r...
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    > It’s like a divorce. You can either reach a settlement or spend a ton of money fighting for years. There's basically no way they could possibly spend even a tiny fraction of the overall deal's worth fighting this even if it went on for years. Not spending that money to fight this would really be stupid.

hey2022 4y ago

Twitter is a public company. We can not ignore the effect this situation has on the investors (regardless of whether someone thinks "they deserve it", or something equally irrelevant).

shalmanese 4y ago

Contracts matter. The ability for two parties to create a contract and to have reasonably secure knowledge that the state will still in and enforce the terms of the contract, using violence if necessary, is a massive foundational element to free market capitalism. We see in states where such an expectation is not present, that it becomes an enormous invisible drag on all business activity and degrades the civic functioning of society. One of the crowning achievements of Western Liberalism was the concept of "rule of law" and that there would exist an impartial, powerful judiciary independent of political power that could bring massive resources to bear to enforce contracts.

mlyle 4y ago
Yup. Else you have oligarchs and corruption and insider abuses. It hurts to see the way our institutions are rotting. (Not that they've ever been perfect, but I feel like we're on the decline and they need tending).
xiphias2 4y ago
You are right, and Twitter has the upper hand here. But there are always exceptions written in the contracts and Elon would be foolish not to spend a few million to try to trigger an exception to renegotiate the contract. It just makes business sense.

bambax 4y ago

> It’s clear that the offer Elon got stuck with has an unrealistic price at this point But that's not how it works. That's why we have contracts, and covenants, etc.: it's so that, if conditions change, one party cannot say "oops, sorry, changed my mind" and walk. (Also, the offer "Elon got stuck with" is his own, and even bears his childish signature of a weed joke.)

whiplash451 4y ago

Can you please elaborate on what makes it clear that Twitter management was incompetent in the last few years?