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Another bad UI/ux problem is advertising standards. I had to go help my 70yo neighbour deal with Microsoft scammers after she clicked the "continue" button for

Another bad UI/ux problem is advertising standards. I had to go help my 70yo neighbour deal with Microsoft scammers after she clicked the "continue" button for her time scheduling form: https://ibb.co/CKCbRpf https://ibb.co/CKCbRpf Guess where the actual continue button is? Computers are hell for normal people. There needs to be some sort of standards both on the appearance of ads ("can't look like the flow of a page, must be ""clearly"" an ad") and the positioning of ads (must be in margins, can't use absolute positioning). After clicking this, it takes you to a Microsoft security product page looking website, forces itself to full screen, robotic voice blaring " your computer is insecure, please step away from computer" and a pop-up telling you what number to call to sort it out. She came knocking on my door with the Microsoft tech support on the phone. Thankfully she had problems with the run prompt, and wanted me to help. I just hung up, closed the site. And installed an ad blocker. And then people out there who support ads on the internet as they are right now

andrei_says_ 4y ago
I do weekly videocalls with my parents. My mother uses an android tablet. We've given up on zoom because the interface is too complicated for her. Currently using google duo. Some things that stop her in her tracks: - any control that requires a touch to activate and then disappears on a timeout - like all the controls for video apps. She takes 3-4 seconds to realize something changed and then 5 more more to start orienting herself. The controls usually disappear within 5-7 seconds. - any surprising prompt from the os throws her into helplessness and panic - updates that need a restart, etc. - anything that switches the focus away from the current activity. Why would android interrupt a live call with some BS, ever, is beyond me. - communications apps show a screen with names but that's often the log of past calls or a chat. She wants to just click a name and make a call. On zoom, going to her contacts required 2 or 3 clicks which were not intuitive for her, and so she can never initiate a call. - zoom audio needed active confirmation to connect to audio. On a tablet, where no options are available but the over-wifi audio. - her having to slide a control in order to answer a call. - anything that requires a reaction within 10-15 seconds - anything that uses (even widely accepted) technical jargon. She is not deaf or disabled nor visually impaired and yet the complexity of using this device presents serious obstacles. These are just from the top of my head. She doesn't browse or use a computer and I'm happy for her. TV and newspaper are enough and I just don't feel good about having her navigate a world of malicious predatory dark patterns. This makes me realize how used I am to not trusting anything online and presuming the worst by default - in order to protect myself. I remember how about a decade ago my dad wanted me to help him with an important email. Someone had emailed him to tell him he won a lottery in Britain. It took me a lot of effort to explain to him that it is a scam, that they've emailed everyone, automatically, (to him a simple email takes half an hour so he can't imagine so much effort going into a scam) and that despite them knowing his name... they don't really know him. The asymmetrical nature of malicious activity online is so... dishartening.
- userbinator 4y ago
  She is not deaf or disabled nor visually impaired and yet the complexity of using this device presents serious obstacles. I'm an experienced developer in the software industry and some of the stuff you mention still catches me off-guard --- especially the whole "disappearing controls" thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965293
  - bentcorner 4y ago
    IMO controls that require some kind of time-related action (e.g., magically disappearing popups and buttons that hide themselves) should violate accessibility standards.
    - userbinator 4y ago
      Agreed; I think games --- especially ones where realtime reaction is required --- are the only acceptable use of such controls. Otherwise they're just a really unpleasant "race condition".
- Ruq 4y ago
  Many of the things you describe, describe my mother to a tee. She uses an iPad, but progressively Apple has complicated the interface to fit in more and more features, which has made it harder and harder for her to use the device simply. --- One recent example is the Notes app, which today includes folders, tags, and many other fancy features. I only discovered recently that she had still been using the app as though she did the day she started using Notes, which must've been c. iOS 6. She didn't even notice the top-left "< Folders" button. Apple's design language is "Clean" and "Modern", but often fails to convey to non-technical users that a even a button is...a button, since iOS/iPadOS use colored text with no background to convey that something is a button. --- One other example was a mistake I made while configuring a web browser for her. I absent-mindedly turned on "Hide panels automatically", and it wasn't until I figured out what my mother meant when she complained "SOMETHING POPS OUT AND THEN JUST VANISHES" of what I had done wrong.
cratermoon 4y ago
At least one AdTech company I know of has a policy against advertising assets that look like buttons or other UI elements, and require any ad image to include the branding of the business being advertised. That's just one of many AdTech brokers, and the biggest ones have no such scruples.
prawn 4y ago
That scheduling form example is just incredible. No ad network should allow this sort of trash. It really makes me want to walk away from computers and into a forest forever.
- cube00 4y ago
  I disabled the personalised advertising in my Google account and it's astounding how many ads that look to me like scams are permitted on YouTube/Google's ad network. All using the same old over dubbed Musk videos from years ago to sell me trading software which they could easily detect with their own Content ID but they choose not to.
Vinnl 4y ago
This is why one of the first things I do when I get access to a less technical person's device is install an ad blocker. As a security measure.

andrei_says_ 4y ago

I do weekly videocalls with my parents. My mother uses an android tablet. We've given up on zoom because the interface is too complicated for her. Currently using google duo. Some things that stop her in her tracks: - any control that requires a touch to activate and then disappears on a timeout - like all the controls for video apps. She takes 3-4 seconds to realize something changed and then 5 more more to start orienting herself. The controls usually disappear within 5-7 seconds. - any surprising prompt from the os throws her into helplessness and panic - updates that need a restart, etc. - anything that switches the focus away from the current activity. Why would android interrupt a live call with some BS, ever, is beyond me. - communications apps show a screen with names but that's often the log of past calls or a chat. She wants to just click a name and make a call. On zoom, going to her contacts required 2 or 3 clicks which were not intuitive for her, and so she can never initiate a call. - zoom audio needed active confirmation to connect to audio. On a tablet, where no options are available but the over-wifi audio. - her having to slide a control in order to answer a call. - anything that requires a reaction within 10-15 seconds - anything that uses (even widely accepted) technical jargon. She is not deaf or disabled nor visually impaired and yet the complexity of using this device presents serious obstacles. These are just from the top of my head. She doesn't browse or use a computer and I'm happy for her. TV and newspaper are enough and I just don't feel good about having her navigate a world of malicious predatory dark patterns. This makes me realize how used I am to not trusting anything online and presuming the worst by default - in order to protect myself. I remember how about a decade ago my dad wanted me to help him with an important email. Someone had emailed him to tell him he won a lottery in Britain. It took me a lot of effort to explain to him that it is a scam, that they've emailed everyone, automatically, (to him a simple email takes half an hour so he can't imagine so much effort going into a scam) and that despite them knowing his name... they don't really know him. The asymmetrical nature of malicious activity online is so... dishartening.

userbinator 4y ago
She is not deaf or disabled nor visually impaired and yet the complexity of using this device presents serious obstacles. I'm an experienced developer in the software industry and some of the stuff you mention still catches me off-guard --- especially the whole "disappearing controls" thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965293
- bentcorner 4y ago
  IMO controls that require some kind of time-related action (e.g., magically disappearing popups and buttons that hide themselves) should violate accessibility standards.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    Agreed; I think games --- especially ones where realtime reaction is required --- are the only acceptable use of such controls. Otherwise they're just a really unpleasant "race condition".
Ruq 4y ago
Many of the things you describe, describe my mother to a tee. She uses an iPad, but progressively Apple has complicated the interface to fit in more and more features, which has made it harder and harder for her to use the device simply. --- One recent example is the Notes app, which today includes folders, tags, and many other fancy features. I only discovered recently that she had still been using the app as though she did the day she started using Notes, which must've been c. iOS 6. She didn't even notice the top-left "< Folders" button. Apple's design language is "Clean" and "Modern", but often fails to convey to non-technical users that a even a button is...a button, since iOS/iPadOS use colored text with no background to convey that something is a button. --- One other example was a mistake I made while configuring a web browser for her. I absent-mindedly turned on "Hide panels automatically", and it wasn't until I figured out what my mother meant when she complained "SOMETHING POPS OUT AND THEN JUST VANISHES" of what I had done wrong.

cratermoon 4y ago

At least one AdTech company I know of has a policy against advertising assets that look like buttons or other UI elements, and require any ad image to include the branding of the business being advertised. That's just one of many AdTech brokers, and the biggest ones have no such scruples.

prawn 4y ago

That scheduling form example is just incredible. No ad network should allow this sort of trash. It really makes me want to walk away from computers and into a forest forever.

cube00 4y ago
I disabled the personalised advertising in my Google account and it's astounding how many ads that look to me like scams are permitted on YouTube/Google's ad network. All using the same old over dubbed Musk videos from years ago to sell me trading software which they could easily detect with their own Content ID but they choose not to.

Vinnl 4y ago

This is why one of the first things I do when I get access to a less technical person's device is install an ad blocker. As a security measure.