8 ms·

I think people in the USA understand bloated telecoms with monopoly power that means they don't need to compete. In my neighborhood, I have one effective ISP,

I think people in the USA understand bloated telecoms with monopoly power that means they don't need to compete. In my neighborhood, I have one effective ISP, that is the cable company (who offers phone+internet+cable), the other is an old-school phone company who offers DSL (with bonded DSL, up to 12mbit). I thought that I could get a slow DSL connection to back up my cable, but no, there's some neighborhood line concentrator that means I can't get DSL at any speed. So I really have only one ISP to "choose" from. (well, in theory I could get Starlink, but my area is still waitlisted, as is Verizon 5G home internet)

edgefield 4y ago
Having lived in Canada and the US, with telecom plans with providers in both countries, I think Canada’s telecoms take it to a new level. To give you a sense of how distorted the market is, it was cheaper for me to keep my US Verizon wireless plan than to use Rogers, Fido, etc. when I lived in Canada!
- jamal-kumar 4y ago
  I do this. Unlimited (international!) roaming and everything isn't that expensive (Only about 100$) compared to whatever insane amount I'd be paying if I had some ripoff, under 5 gigabyte or whatever pittance data capped Canadian phone plan for no reason. I also maintain a Central American phone plan that doesn't cost me very much either (2$ every 3 months just to keep the number outside of the country and receive SMS/use chat apps basically, but I don't do roaming when out of that region - When in the region, I spend maybe 20$ a month). Since the Rogers website is down (Great sales strategy!) I can refer anyone curious to a portion of their menu from some image I found; [1] 95$CAD (500MB until you hit overage) + 60$ for 'roam like home' (no mention of data, canadians still use SMS way too widely), and then probably more to up that data cap with no guarantee that applies to roaming? Yeah, no thanks! Oh yeah, the cops just install malware on your shit with reckless abandon, too. [2] I see no reason to consider Canadian nationality as anything but a nice passport at this point. [1] https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/rogers-travel-packs.jpg https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/roger... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/07/canada-police-spyware-admission-surveillance-experts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/07/canada-police-...
  - nabaraz 4y ago
    I've heard they stop your service if your roaming is half of your data plan.
    - jamal-kumar 4y ago
      Wow, that's incredibly rude. I've never experienced something like that outside of Canada before. Like what are you even paying roaming for if they pull stuff like that? Is there any acknowledgement that some of us are actually abroad most of the time?
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Telecoms routinely sell people services based on the assumption people won't use them. This gigabit link? The user isn't ever going to saturate it, right? They are pretty much immediately proven wrong and get angry because their infrastructure is over capacity. That they can get away with this false advertising astounds me to this day.
    - mattm 4y ago
      I've heard something similar but that they'll stop service if you're out of the US for over 6 months.
  - joelmeckert 4y ago
    My Rogers plan is $90 for 65 GB of data, it is unnecessary (average use for me is 4 GB/month), but better than going over or throttled. When I was supporting an MPLS Rogers fibre connection, we had zero downtime in 2.5 years.
    - jamal-kumar 4y ago
      I bet you could twist their arm into a better deal if you spend a while complaining on the phone about today. I do a lot of my work off of a mobile hotspot so I'm not tied to an office or home. I try to make the most of what's paid for and it goes very far. I think that if you're getting a decent price it's probably just customer retention at that price point. If they're ripping anyone off widely at the prices I saw, it's new customers... Immigrants etc, pretty nasty.
amscanne 4y ago
I have a lot of experience in both places. Americans may think think they do, but I don’t think so. As bad as Comcast and others are in the USA, I have found them to be far more efficient and competitive than Rogers or Bell in Canada. Same for banks in Canada. It’s unbelievable what they do and get away with. And airlines. Rather, Airline. I believe there’s a cultural element here: Canadians are more risk adverse and place a higher value on “established” companies and brands. This influences consumer behavior and legislation (Canadians don’t seem to care about laws that make it hard or impossible for market entrants).
- jonahrd 4y ago
  I'm a US citizen, Canadian permanent resident. I think it has to do with the fact that historically much of Canada's lands/provinces were literally just land owned by very massive British crown corporations. Massive corporations are baked into the history of Canada as a political entity.
  - hackbinary 4y ago
    No. "Crown Land" in Canada is owned by the provinces. There is no such thing as a "British Crown Corporation." Crown Corporations are a Canadian thing. I lived in Canada for 30 years and now live in the Scotland. CalMac and Scottish Water are not "Crown Corporations," but are nevertheless owned and controlled by the Scottish Ministers. This is contrast to BC Ferries, ICBC, and BC Hydro which are Crown Corporations. In the UK there is something called the Crown Estate, which is somethint again different.
    - kelseydh 4y ago
      You're at a National Park. In Canada, it's crown land. In America, it's your park. The Canadian mentality is different.
      - hackbinary 4y ago
        National Parks are not Crown Land. National Parks are reserves of land owned and managed by the Federal Parks Department and development is not allowed on that land whatsoever. Crown Land is land owned and administered by the provinces. Crown Land can be licenced for many uses and sometimes it can be purchased. Also, Provincial Parks are not Crown Land.
throw7 4y ago
I (america) also have only one internet provider to choose from (Spectrum TV, formerly Time Warner Cable). It's really annoying as just barely a mile away, my neighbor has a choice to use Verizon DSL (and does). -.- I dropped TV and a landline a long time ago, and use cell (google-fi/t-mobile). The annoying thing is all the spam mail I get from spectrum to bundle all the above for much lower than I'm paying now for an introductory rate. I don't want to play that game but it kills me what I could be saving for at least 6 months to a year.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Spectrum is so incompetent that even if you were a Spectrum subscriber, they'd still spam you with those offers.

edgefield 4y ago

Having lived in Canada and the US, with telecom plans with providers in both countries, I think Canada’s telecoms take it to a new level. To give you a sense of how distorted the market is, it was cheaper for me to keep my US Verizon wireless plan than to use Rogers, Fido, etc. when I lived in Canada!

jamal-kumar 4y ago
I do this. Unlimited (international!) roaming and everything isn't that expensive (Only about 100$) compared to whatever insane amount I'd be paying if I had some ripoff, under 5 gigabyte or whatever pittance data capped Canadian phone plan for no reason. I also maintain a Central American phone plan that doesn't cost me very much either (2$ every 3 months just to keep the number outside of the country and receive SMS/use chat apps basically, but I don't do roaming when out of that region - When in the region, I spend maybe 20$ a month). Since the Rogers website is down (Great sales strategy!) I can refer anyone curious to a portion of their menu from some image I found; [1] 95$CAD (500MB until you hit overage) + 60$ for 'roam like home' (no mention of data, canadians still use SMS way too widely), and then probably more to up that data cap with no guarantee that applies to roaming? Yeah, no thanks! Oh yeah, the cops just install malware on your shit with reckless abandon, too. [2] I see no reason to consider Canadian nationality as anything but a nice passport at this point. [1] https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/rogers-travel-packs.jpg https://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/roger... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/07/canada-police-spyware-admission-surveillance-experts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/07/canada-police-...
- nabaraz 4y ago
  I've heard they stop your service if your roaming is half of your data plan.
  - jamal-kumar 4y ago
    Wow, that's incredibly rude. I've never experienced something like that outside of Canada before. Like what are you even paying roaming for if they pull stuff like that? Is there any acknowledgement that some of us are actually abroad most of the time?
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      Telecoms routinely sell people services based on the assumption people won't use them. This gigabit link? The user isn't ever going to saturate it, right? They are pretty much immediately proven wrong and get angry because their infrastructure is over capacity. That they can get away with this false advertising astounds me to this day.
  - mattm 4y ago
    I've heard something similar but that they'll stop service if you're out of the US for over 6 months.
- joelmeckert 4y ago
  My Rogers plan is $90 for 65 GB of data, it is unnecessary (average use for me is 4 GB/month), but better than going over or throttled. When I was supporting an MPLS Rogers fibre connection, we had zero downtime in 2.5 years.
  - jamal-kumar 4y ago
    I bet you could twist their arm into a better deal if you spend a while complaining on the phone about today. I do a lot of my work off of a mobile hotspot so I'm not tied to an office or home. I try to make the most of what's paid for and it goes very far. I think that if you're getting a decent price it's probably just customer retention at that price point. If they're ripping anyone off widely at the prices I saw, it's new customers... Immigrants etc, pretty nasty.

amscanne 4y ago

I have a lot of experience in both places. Americans may think think they do, but I don’t think so. As bad as Comcast and others are in the USA, I have found them to be far more efficient and competitive than Rogers or Bell in Canada. Same for banks in Canada. It’s unbelievable what they do and get away with. And airlines. Rather, Airline. I believe there’s a cultural element here: Canadians are more risk adverse and place a higher value on “established” companies and brands. This influences consumer behavior and legislation (Canadians don’t seem to care about laws that make it hard or impossible for market entrants).

jonahrd 4y ago
I'm a US citizen, Canadian permanent resident. I think it has to do with the fact that historically much of Canada's lands/provinces were literally just land owned by very massive British crown corporations. Massive corporations are baked into the history of Canada as a political entity.
- hackbinary 4y ago
  No. "Crown Land" in Canada is owned by the provinces. There is no such thing as a "British Crown Corporation." Crown Corporations are a Canadian thing. I lived in Canada for 30 years and now live in the Scotland. CalMac and Scottish Water are not "Crown Corporations," but are nevertheless owned and controlled by the Scottish Ministers. This is contrast to BC Ferries, ICBC, and BC Hydro which are Crown Corporations. In the UK there is something called the Crown Estate, which is somethint again different.
  - kelseydh 4y ago
    You're at a National Park. In Canada, it's crown land. In America, it's your park. The Canadian mentality is different.
    - hackbinary 4y ago
      National Parks are not Crown Land. National Parks are reserves of land owned and managed by the Federal Parks Department and development is not allowed on that land whatsoever. Crown Land is land owned and administered by the provinces. Crown Land can be licenced for many uses and sometimes it can be purchased. Also, Provincial Parks are not Crown Land.

throw7 4y ago

I (america) also have only one internet provider to choose from (Spectrum TV, formerly Time Warner Cable). It's really annoying as just barely a mile away, my neighbor has a choice to use Verizon DSL (and does). -.- I dropped TV and a landline a long time ago, and use cell (google-fi/t-mobile). The annoying thing is all the spam mail I get from spectrum to bundle all the above for much lower than I'm paying now for an introductory rate. I don't want to play that game but it kills me what I could be saving for at least 6 months to a year.

dylan604 4y ago
Spectrum is so incompetent that even if you were a Spectrum subscriber, they'd still spam you with those offers.