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I can’t relate at all to that sentiment. California has got to be one of the most bloated and wasteful state governments in the entire US. High taxes and nothin

I can’t relate at all to that sentiment. California has got to be one of the most bloated and wasteful state governments in the entire US. High taxes and nothing to show for it. The entrenched far left seems bent on destroying the middle class, driving out business, regulating everything to death and displacing merit as a selection factor. Whatever glory Cali has— tech, entertainment, farming, weather, natural beauty— is in spite of govt rather than because of it.

raldi 4y ago
High taxes on newcomers. Nearly nonexistent taxes on dynastic families.
- peter422 4y ago
  California income tax has no carve outs for capital gains so I don’t know where you got that idea. Rich people specifically don’t like California because of the taxes (as compared to other No or low income tax states). I assume you are referring to property taxes, but undoubtedly any “dynastic” family is going to have more tax liability from income than from property value.
  - raldi 4y ago
    Rich people love California, and all the other blue states with high income tax: https://www.statista.com/statistics/294941/largest-ratio-millionaire-households-per-capita-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/294941/largest-ratio-mil...
    - TheCoelacanth 4y ago
      Because they are nice places to live with strong economies and lots of amenities. Not because they have a lower tax burden.
      - hcknwscommenter 4y ago
        yes but the point is that they love CA DESPITE the tax burden. In other words, tax them. They will come anyway because it is great there. And the taxes will pay for ever more lovely things like nature preserves and clean air and water and decent schools (yes they are pretty dang good in CA) and art, museums, science, tech, etc. And this will be a virtuous cycle (as it already has been).
      - raldi 4y ago
        The high taxes are the reason they’re nice places to live with strong economies and lots of amenities. And that’s why rich people love living in blue states like California.
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    California has very, very low real estate tax. That drives real estate values higher, and creates a big tax divide between owners and renters.
- truffdog 4y ago
  Newsom is quite close to that dynastic wealth, too- https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-pol-ca-gavin-newsom-san-francisco-money/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-pol-ca-gavin-newsom-san-...
  - zeruch 4y ago
    He's not close, he is.
    - truffdog 4y ago
      So, incredibly, unbelievably close.
taeric 4y ago
I can't claim you are wrong. But I do question when the evidence is so murky. A lot of what folks think they want in efficient systems are systems that would fail because of how efficient they were run. That is, what evidence do you have that the success is in spite of government? Is there a comparable government or system that is doing better? Why? Or why not?
- csdreamer7 4y ago
  Bullet train: despite earthquakes and mountains, Japan runs a pretty decent network of high speed trains. Politics, well documented by the papers, show how a high speed train had repeated stops added to it, and was slowed down in California to the speed of a regular train while costing much more. Despite adding an additional 1.0% tax to fund mental health, homelessness has only increased in California. Efforts to reduce prop 13 inflated property values are feeble at best. Senior and junior water rights, where senior land holders can extract as much water as they want over juniors, based on an arbitrary date chosen in law, have not been reformed. CalPers is very poorly funded compared to other states. Don't get me wrong, a lot of California's success is due to government. Banning non-competes and funding a strong system of community colleges and state universities for example. But other states are 'kinda' adopting non-compete bans and the state has cut funding years ago to those institutions, which makes me question the value of my tax dollars when a house built just after WW2 costs over a million dollars, K-12 is below the national average, and the public universities here cost much more than well regarded ones in other states. The state is not dealing with it's problems. I left a while ago and I feel better for it. Edit: grammar and a few words.
  - antognini 4y ago
    Another good point of comparison for the bullet train system is Spain. California is currently projecting to spend $105 billion for 520 miles of track. By contrast Spain built over 2000 miles of track for $72 billion.
  - taeric 4y ago
    I'm not sure this fully tracks. A type of public transit failed in California that succeeded elsewhere. If that is the reference, why can't I point to the tech industry and use it as positive evidence? And, most of the bad things you are bringing up are happening all throughout the US. Just feels too convenient to say that the tech industry is in spite of the government, but the failures are because of it.
renewiltord 4y ago
It's a mix. California has at least some reasons for why it is a tech haven: non-competes unenforceable; well-supported state university system California also gets a lot wrong that interferes with tech: prop 13 and friends, housing policy, incredible corruption, massive local conservatism But California is most like America as a microcosm: horrifically corrupt but such a powerhouse that it resembles a leviathan that charges despite the parasites on its back and belly.
- YeBanKo 4y ago
  Non-competes is an interesting point, I always wonder how much it impacts innovation. Probably very hard to measure and isolate this impact. Current tech scene seems to be a combination of few things: remnants of semiconductor industry, great climate and beautiful outdoors. College system obviously is a factor as well.
  - hcknwscommenter 4y ago
    non-competes is huge. I've personally been involved in a couple of startups in another country that got hammered by non-compete issues (once even just an implied non-compete). The fact that smart motivated folks can just up and leave a sinking ship and start a debt-free competitor next door relatively easily is a gigantic advantage that is absent is most jurisdictions.
- gumby 4y ago
  > California also gets a lot wrong that interferes with tech: … incredible corruption… Indeed, it is literally “incredible”. What passes for corruption in California wouldn’t even be worth noticing on the older states of the east coast, especially the north east. I’ve lived in both.
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    I've lived in a few countries, but when I was on the East Coast I wasn't anywhere near noticing this. Happy to grant the point that it's better than the older economies of the East.
enahs-sf 4y ago
I agree, current management is pretty bad. I can easily envision a world where it is well-run and with less grift where your California ID essentially unlocks a slew of services like healthcare and university access. Like i said before, this is wishful thinking, but it’s not for lack of resources.
- boardwaalk 4y ago
  You could imagine that in quite a few states. California isn’t even on top in terms of GDP per capita (DC, MA, NY, AK, ND all rank higher, CT, WA, WY slightly below).
rayiner 4y ago
I don’t think that’a entirely fair. California is the product of good governance during the 1950s-1980s. There is public infrastructure, like good schools and universities, that needs to be laid to attract industry in the first place. California probably wouldn’t the what it is without the UC system, for example. Of course that was a very different California.
- YeBanKo 4y ago
  California schools system is not good.
  - rhodorhoades 4y ago
    UC Berkeley, UC San Diego, UC Los Angeles are some of the best engineering schools on the planet.
    - google234123 4y ago
      They are talking about non-higher ed when referring to "schools".
      - sli 4y ago
        My experience with elementary school in California vs. Florida as a kid had such a disparity in quality in favor of California that I was able to notice it even at that young of an age. I came to figure out why much later in life, but I'll never forget that feeling like I'd taken a huge step back.
        rayiner 4y ago
        Maybe as a kid. But Florida kicks California's ass in K12 education these days. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?chort=1&sub=RED&sj=AL&sfj=NP&st=MN&year=2019R3 https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?chor...
    - 4y ago
ss108 4y ago
As opposed to Republican states, which are utopias of innovation, culture, and industry, and totally not leeching on the merit of the blue states who keep transferring wealth to them via the Federal government.
kupopuffs 4y ago
"Purge it of its corruption…and it would become an impracticable government" Alexander Hamilton. On california of course
ksm1717 4y ago
I promise you that California is not entrenched with anyone remotely far to the left
areoform 4y ago
While I respect where you are coming from, the data doesn't match your perceptions. California's governance is exceptional despite the corruption. Here's some data, - One of the best ways to match models to reality is to see if they have predictive power, for some time now people have predicted that California is doomed, see, “California doom: Staggering $54 billion deficit looms,” https://apnews.com/article/48a9ce5ad7494d22ec0c42ac46ae9baf https://apnews.com/article/48a9ce5ad7494d22ec0c42ac46ae9baf , but the surplus that year was a $75 B. - Since 2006, California has cut the rate maternal mortality and women dying in childbirth by 65%, the national maternal mortality rate has increased by 50% to 70%. The impact this one data point has on people's lives cannot be overstated. More women are dying in the States at a rate 6x that of Nordic states and 3x that of Canada, and it's a trend that's increasing for most of the US. Except California. This data is from 2018, but the graph is simply staggering, https://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2017/05/propublica-mortality-rates.png https://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2017/05/propublica-mortali... and https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/220510134152-hponly20220510-maternal-mortality-super-tease.png https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/220510134152-hponly20... - Despite the reduction due to the pandemic, California has the longest lifespan in the US for men. If you are born in California, as a man, you will live to 78.4 years on average as compared to 71.7 years (and falling) in West Virginia, 76 years in Texas, 72.6 years in Kentucky, and 75.7 years in Texas. On average, you will live 6+ to 3+ years longer than most US States if you're born in California. The same is true for women. Data, https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-1-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-1-508.pdf This is roughly the same amount you would get from an intervention such as lifelong/prolonged caloric restriction, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3014770/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3014770/ - Between 2015 and 2019, California's economy grew at a rate of 22%. For comparison, China was 26%. Germany, 15%. Japan, 16%. In December of 2021, California added 42% of all jobs in the US. Nearly half of all new jobs in the country for that month were created in California. Alone. https://mehabe.com/2021/06/14/among-the-five-largest-economies-california-outperforms-the-u-s-japan-and-germany-with-a-growth/ https://mehabe.com/2021/06/14/among-the-five-largest-economi... | https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/11/californias-economic-recovery-job-growth-outpaced-the-nations-continues-to-create-tens-of-thousands-of-jobs-every-month/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/11/californias-economic-recov... - California has the highest rate of income growth in all of the US. Even when compared to Texas. Here's a comparison of the two states, Despite a slight decline in population, California's per capita income grew at a significantly greater rate than Texas, "Between 2000 and 2020, California’s PCI was significantly greater than both Texas and the U.S. as a whole (BEA, 2021). Both disparities grew substantially from 2015 to 2020. For example, while California’s per capita income was 20 percent higher than Texas’ in 2015, this gap surged to 30 percent just 5 years later. And this was not simply a COVID-induced phenomenon, as the rising disparity was apparent in 2019 even before the pandemic." Between the two states, the government invests substantially more on the public in California, even when adjusting for state revenue, "A large part of this difference between California and Texas, however, is driven by differences between the two states in GDP per capita, which is 22 percent higher in California ($79,405) than in Texas ($65,077) (BEA, 2020). Even adjusting for this, state and local governments loom much larger in California, with their spending representing 20.3 percent of the state’s GDP versus just 15.4 percent in Texas. By this metric California’s public sector is about one-third larger than in Texas, implying that the greater per capita GDP in California explains almost half of its higher state and local spending." From the data the study concludes that this spending leads to, "it appears higher government spending in California leads to stronger student performance, better environmental and health outcomes, and safer neighborhoods than in a small government state such as Texas" Full study, https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/tale-two-states-contrasting-economic-policy-california-and-texas https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/tale-tw... - We can contrast California against states like Kansas, where they've implemented low taxes and cut public spending as a part of the "Kansas Experiment", the state has gone almost bankrupt and there has been no subsequent increase in GDP growth. The experiment is widely regarded as a failure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment There are areas where California doesn't do well, such as homelessness, but by every conceivably metric, California has exceeded other US states. Surely some of this has to do with governance. If I was to sum up my position here, it's this. You get what you pay for.
KerrAvon 4y ago
“Cali” — if you’re not a California native, why do you think your opinion is valid? Have you read up on the political and social history of the state?
- zeruch 4y ago
  You don't have to be a native to have a well founded opinion of California, but his opinion wasn't very well founded.
- raldi 4y ago
  If you've only ever lived in one place, why do you think your opinion is valid?
drekk 4y ago
California's government is center-right. There is no far left party in US politics. That's why you don't have affordable higher education or healthcare, why your infrastructure is decaying, why you don't have nice public transit, etc. It's also why your taxes are so high with nothing to show for them. Turns out austerity is expensive for most people. Canada and Mexico have cheap insulin because their governments are only willing to put up with so much profiteering in medicine. One has to ask why the US government is. Is that because of the far left, too?
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  Left and right aren't objective measurements, they are relative ones. Relative to US politics generally California's government is left. If you're in some even more left European country that doesn't mean anything - Europe is not the objective standard by which everyone measures politics.
  - over_bridge 4y ago
    While it's true that the terms are relative, there are countries in Europe and South America that have literal communist, socialist or anarchist parties. Hearing people describe Democrats as far left makes them sound like clowns spouting canned propaganda. It's not conducive to conversation as you know you aren't talking to a rational person who can argue in good faith.
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      Some countries are further left and some are further right. To add even more complexity some countries, all of them really, are just different in ways that a one dimensional scale doesn't really capture that well. This is both true and a trivial observation. It is a banality that doesn't really mean anything but is often offered as if it did.
    - feet 4y ago
      People who call US Democrats far left likely don't have experience with culture outside of their own and their local/national mainstream news. Either that or they hang out on 4chan
xtracto 4y ago
I chuckle whenever I read someone referring to any US political view as "Far Left" ... the most leftist leftist in the US would be considered center-right in most parts of the world
- orwin 4y ago
  > the most leftist leftist `that you see on TV` in the US would be considered center-right ftfy There is some leftists in the US, i found them. Old hippies or young actives doing a lot of hiking/rock climbing/kayaking and playing music. They mostly don't engage in the two-party politics.
baskethead 4y ago
Nancy Pelosi has been CA rep for decades and she is worth over $100M, meanwhile California education system is shit, the prison system is shit, taxes are among the highest in the US, income inequality is fucked, water is fucked, electricity is fucked. Same goes for all those politicians like Diane Feinstein, etc. The last time a Republican had any presence in California was 30 years ago and the Dems have driven this state off a cliff. Why do Californians still keep falling for the same grift election after election? It doesn't matter who you vote for, all they do is steal from the people for their own gain and we keep voting for them because they give us lip service on particular causes.
- raldi 4y ago
  Republicans have a hammerlock over California to this day, thanks to Prop 13, Prop 218, and the Gann Limit, all of which starve our public resources and prevent duly-elected Democrats from enacting the overwhelming will of the people.
  - baskethead 4y ago
    These talking points are all lies, especially Prop 13. Look at the home prices and the home sales, all of which are getting sold at ridiculously high prices. The turnover is huge across the state. Demand for housing is still strong despite the interest rates, despite your Prop 13 BS. What Prop 13 does is stop retired families from being forced to move out. The retired families in my neighborhood would have to pay $4000+/month in property tax. What will it be in 2030 or 2040? The only thing keeping things sane are things like Prop 13. And don't forget, Pelosi, in all her glory, was trying to add back in the SALT tax exceptions to the Biden bills earlier this year. Why would she do that except to reward all her rich donors in CA?
    - raldi 4y ago
      Without Prop 13, homeowners would support the construction of multifamily housing in their communities, and that would keep property taxes low for everybody (not just dynastic families) and home prices affordable. Just like things were before Prop 13.
throwaway7980 4y ago
> nothing to show for it That's why almost 12% of the US population chooses to live in California right?

raldi 4y ago

High taxes on newcomers. Nearly nonexistent taxes on dynastic families.

peter422 4y ago
California income tax has no carve outs for capital gains so I don’t know where you got that idea. Rich people specifically don’t like California because of the taxes (as compared to other No or low income tax states). I assume you are referring to property taxes, but undoubtedly any “dynastic” family is going to have more tax liability from income than from property value.
- raldi 4y ago
  Rich people love California, and all the other blue states with high income tax: https://www.statista.com/statistics/294941/largest-ratio-millionaire-households-per-capita-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/294941/largest-ratio-mil...
  - TheCoelacanth 4y ago
    Because they are nice places to live with strong economies and lots of amenities. Not because they have a lower tax burden.
    - hcknwscommenter 4y ago
      yes but the point is that they love CA DESPITE the tax burden. In other words, tax them. They will come anyway because it is great there. And the taxes will pay for ever more lovely things like nature preserves and clean air and water and decent schools (yes they are pretty dang good in CA) and art, museums, science, tech, etc. And this will be a virtuous cycle (as it already has been).
    - raldi 4y ago
      The high taxes are the reason they’re nice places to live with strong economies and lots of amenities. And that’s why rich people love living in blue states like California.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  California has very, very low real estate tax. That drives real estate values higher, and creates a big tax divide between owners and renters.
truffdog 4y ago
Newsom is quite close to that dynastic wealth, too- https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-pol-ca-gavin-newsom-san-francisco-money/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-pol-ca-gavin-newsom-san-...
- zeruch 4y ago
  He's not close, he is.
  - truffdog 4y ago
    So, incredibly, unbelievably close.

taeric 4y ago

I can't claim you are wrong. But I do question when the evidence is so murky. A lot of what folks think they want in efficient systems are systems that would fail because of how efficient they were run. That is, what evidence do you have that the success is in spite of government? Is there a comparable government or system that is doing better? Why? Or why not?

csdreamer7 4y ago
Bullet train: despite earthquakes and mountains, Japan runs a pretty decent network of high speed trains. Politics, well documented by the papers, show how a high speed train had repeated stops added to it, and was slowed down in California to the speed of a regular train while costing much more. Despite adding an additional 1.0% tax to fund mental health, homelessness has only increased in California. Efforts to reduce prop 13 inflated property values are feeble at best. Senior and junior water rights, where senior land holders can extract as much water as they want over juniors, based on an arbitrary date chosen in law, have not been reformed. CalPers is very poorly funded compared to other states. Don't get me wrong, a lot of California's success is due to government. Banning non-competes and funding a strong system of community colleges and state universities for example. But other states are 'kinda' adopting non-compete bans and the state has cut funding years ago to those institutions, which makes me question the value of my tax dollars when a house built just after WW2 costs over a million dollars, K-12 is below the national average, and the public universities here cost much more than well regarded ones in other states. The state is not dealing with it's problems. I left a while ago and I feel better for it. Edit: grammar and a few words.
- antognini 4y ago
  Another good point of comparison for the bullet train system is Spain. California is currently projecting to spend $105 billion for 520 miles of track. By contrast Spain built over 2000 miles of track for $72 billion.
- taeric 4y ago
  I'm not sure this fully tracks. A type of public transit failed in California that succeeded elsewhere. If that is the reference, why can't I point to the tech industry and use it as positive evidence? And, most of the bad things you are bringing up are happening all throughout the US. Just feels too convenient to say that the tech industry is in spite of the government, but the failures are because of it.

renewiltord 4y ago

It's a mix. California has at least some reasons for why it is a tech haven: non-competes unenforceable; well-supported state university system California also gets a lot wrong that interferes with tech: prop 13 and friends, housing policy, incredible corruption, massive local conservatism But California is most like America as a microcosm: horrifically corrupt but such a powerhouse that it resembles a leviathan that charges despite the parasites on its back and belly.

YeBanKo 4y ago
Non-competes is an interesting point, I always wonder how much it impacts innovation. Probably very hard to measure and isolate this impact. Current tech scene seems to be a combination of few things: remnants of semiconductor industry, great climate and beautiful outdoors. College system obviously is a factor as well.
- hcknwscommenter 4y ago
  non-competes is huge. I've personally been involved in a couple of startups in another country that got hammered by non-compete issues (once even just an implied non-compete). The fact that smart motivated folks can just up and leave a sinking ship and start a debt-free competitor next door relatively easily is a gigantic advantage that is absent is most jurisdictions.
gumby 4y ago
> California also gets a lot wrong that interferes with tech: … incredible corruption… Indeed, it is literally “incredible”. What passes for corruption in California wouldn’t even be worth noticing on the older states of the east coast, especially the north east. I’ve lived in both.
- renewiltord 4y ago
  I've lived in a few countries, but when I was on the East Coast I wasn't anywhere near noticing this. Happy to grant the point that it's better than the older economies of the East.

enahs-sf 4y ago

I agree, current management is pretty bad. I can easily envision a world where it is well-run and with less grift where your California ID essentially unlocks a slew of services like healthcare and university access. Like i said before, this is wishful thinking, but it’s not for lack of resources.

boardwaalk 4y ago
You could imagine that in quite a few states. California isn’t even on top in terms of GDP per capita (DC, MA, NY, AK, ND all rank higher, CT, WA, WY slightly below).

rayiner 4y ago

I don’t think that’a entirely fair. California is the product of good governance during the 1950s-1980s. There is public infrastructure, like good schools and universities, that needs to be laid to attract industry in the first place. California probably wouldn’t the what it is without the UC system, for example. Of course that was a very different California.

YeBanKo 4y ago
California schools system is not good.
- rhodorhoades 4y ago
  UC Berkeley, UC San Diego, UC Los Angeles are some of the best engineering schools on the planet.
  - google234123 4y ago
    They are talking about non-higher ed when referring to "schools".
    - sli 4y ago
      My experience with elementary school in California vs. Florida as a kid had such a disparity in quality in favor of California that I was able to notice it even at that young of an age. I came to figure out why much later in life, but I'll never forget that feeling like I'd taken a huge step back.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        Maybe as a kid. But Florida kicks California's ass in K12 education these days. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?chort=1&sub=RED&sj=AL&sfj=NP&st=MN&year=2019R3 https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?chor...
  - 4y ago

ss108 4y ago

As opposed to Republican states, which are utopias of innovation, culture, and industry, and totally not leeching on the merit of the blue states who keep transferring wealth to them via the Federal government.

kupopuffs 4y ago

"Purge it of its corruption…and it would become an impracticable government" Alexander Hamilton. On california of course

ksm1717 4y ago

I promise you that California is not entrenched with anyone remotely far to the left

areoform 4y ago

While I respect where you are coming from, the data doesn't match your perceptions. California's governance is exceptional despite the corruption. Here's some data, - One of the best ways to match models to reality is to see if they have predictive power, for some time now people have predicted that California is doomed, see, “California doom: Staggering $54 billion deficit looms,” https://apnews.com/article/48a9ce5ad7494d22ec0c42ac46ae9baf https://apnews.com/article/48a9ce5ad7494d22ec0c42ac46ae9baf , but the surplus that year was a $75 B. - Since 2006, California has cut the rate maternal mortality and women dying in childbirth by 65%, the national maternal mortality rate has increased by 50% to 70%. The impact this one data point has on people's lives cannot be overstated. More women are dying in the States at a rate 6x that of Nordic states and 3x that of Canada, and it's a trend that's increasing for most of the US. Except California. This data is from 2018, but the graph is simply staggering, https://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2017/05/propublica-mortality-rates.png https://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2017/05/propublica-mortali... and https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/220510134152-hponly20220510-maternal-mortality-super-tease.png https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/220510134152-hponly20... - Despite the reduction due to the pandemic, California has the longest lifespan in the US for men. If you are born in California, as a man, you will live to 78.4 years on average as compared to 71.7 years (and falling) in West Virginia, 76 years in Texas, 72.6 years in Kentucky, and 75.7 years in Texas. On average, you will live 6+ to 3+ years longer than most US States if you're born in California. The same is true for women. Data, https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-1-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-1-508.pdf This is roughly the same amount you would get from an intervention such as lifelong/prolonged caloric restriction, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3014770/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3014770/ - Between 2015 and 2019, California's economy grew at a rate of 22%. For comparison, China was 26%. Germany, 15%. Japan, 16%. In December of 2021, California added 42% of all jobs in the US. Nearly half of all new jobs in the country for that month were created in California. Alone. https://mehabe.com/2021/06/14/among-the-five-largest-economies-california-outperforms-the-u-s-japan-and-germany-with-a-growth/ https://mehabe.com/2021/06/14/among-the-five-largest-economi... | https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/11/californias-economic-recovery-job-growth-outpaced-the-nations-continues-to-create-tens-of-thousands-of-jobs-every-month/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/11/californias-economic-recov... - California has the highest rate of income growth in all of the US. Even when compared to Texas. Here's a comparison of the two states, Despite a slight decline in population, California's per capita income grew at a significantly greater rate than Texas, "Between 2000 and 2020, California’s PCI was significantly greater than both Texas and the U.S. as a whole (BEA, 2021). Both disparities grew substantially from 2015 to 2020. For example, while California’s per capita income was 20 percent higher than Texas’ in 2015, this gap surged to 30 percent just 5 years later. And this was not simply a COVID-induced phenomenon, as the rising disparity was apparent in 2019 even before the pandemic." Between the two states, the government invests substantially more on the public in California, even when adjusting for state revenue, "A large part of this difference between California and Texas, however, is driven by differences between the two states in GDP per capita, which is 22 percent higher in California ($79,405) than in Texas ($65,077) (BEA, 2020). Even adjusting for this, state and local governments loom much larger in California, with their spending representing 20.3 percent of the state’s GDP versus just 15.4 percent in Texas. By this metric California’s public sector is about one-third larger than in Texas, implying that the greater per capita GDP in California explains almost half of its higher state and local spending." From the data the study concludes that this spending leads to, "it appears higher government spending in California leads to stronger student performance, better environmental and health outcomes, and safer neighborhoods than in a small government state such as Texas" Full study, https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/tale-two-states-contrasting-economic-policy-california-and-texas https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/tale-tw... - We can contrast California against states like Kansas, where they've implemented low taxes and cut public spending as a part of the "Kansas Experiment", the state has gone almost bankrupt and there has been no subsequent increase in GDP growth. The experiment is widely regarded as a failure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment There are areas where California doesn't do well, such as homelessness, but by every conceivably metric, California has exceeded other US states. Surely some of this has to do with governance. If I was to sum up my position here, it's this. You get what you pay for.

KerrAvon 4y ago

“Cali” — if you’re not a California native, why do you think your opinion is valid? Have you read up on the political and social history of the state?

zeruch 4y ago
You don't have to be a native to have a well founded opinion of California, but his opinion wasn't very well founded.
raldi 4y ago
If you've only ever lived in one place, why do you think your opinion is valid?

drekk 4y ago

California's government is center-right. There is no far left party in US politics. That's why you don't have affordable higher education or healthcare, why your infrastructure is decaying, why you don't have nice public transit, etc. It's also why your taxes are so high with nothing to show for them. Turns out austerity is expensive for most people. Canada and Mexico have cheap insulin because their governments are only willing to put up with so much profiteering in medicine. One has to ask why the US government is. Is that because of the far left, too?

ALittleLight 4y ago
Left and right aren't objective measurements, they are relative ones. Relative to US politics generally California's government is left. If you're in some even more left European country that doesn't mean anything - Europe is not the objective standard by which everyone measures politics.
- over_bridge 4y ago
  While it's true that the terms are relative, there are countries in Europe and South America that have literal communist, socialist or anarchist parties. Hearing people describe Democrats as far left makes them sound like clowns spouting canned propaganda. It's not conducive to conversation as you know you aren't talking to a rational person who can argue in good faith.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    Some countries are further left and some are further right. To add even more complexity some countries, all of them really, are just different in ways that a one dimensional scale doesn't really capture that well. This is both true and a trivial observation. It is a banality that doesn't really mean anything but is often offered as if it did.
  - feet 4y ago
    People who call US Democrats far left likely don't have experience with culture outside of their own and their local/national mainstream news. Either that or they hang out on 4chan

xtracto 4y ago

I chuckle whenever I read someone referring to any US political view as "Far Left" ... the most leftist leftist in the US would be considered center-right in most parts of the world

orwin 4y ago
> the most leftist leftist `that you see on TV` in the US would be considered center-right ftfy There is some leftists in the US, i found them. Old hippies or young actives doing a lot of hiking/rock climbing/kayaking and playing music. They mostly don't engage in the two-party politics.

baskethead 4y ago

Nancy Pelosi has been CA rep for decades and she is worth over $100M, meanwhile California education system is shit, the prison system is shit, taxes are among the highest in the US, income inequality is fucked, water is fucked, electricity is fucked. Same goes for all those politicians like Diane Feinstein, etc. The last time a Republican had any presence in California was 30 years ago and the Dems have driven this state off a cliff. Why do Californians still keep falling for the same grift election after election? It doesn't matter who you vote for, all they do is steal from the people for their own gain and we keep voting for them because they give us lip service on particular causes.

raldi 4y ago
Republicans have a hammerlock over California to this day, thanks to Prop 13, Prop 218, and the Gann Limit, all of which starve our public resources and prevent duly-elected Democrats from enacting the overwhelming will of the people.
- baskethead 4y ago
  These talking points are all lies, especially Prop 13. Look at the home prices and the home sales, all of which are getting sold at ridiculously high prices. The turnover is huge across the state. Demand for housing is still strong despite the interest rates, despite your Prop 13 BS. What Prop 13 does is stop retired families from being forced to move out. The retired families in my neighborhood would have to pay $4000+/month in property tax. What will it be in 2030 or 2040? The only thing keeping things sane are things like Prop 13. And don't forget, Pelosi, in all her glory, was trying to add back in the SALT tax exceptions to the Biden bills earlier this year. Why would she do that except to reward all her rich donors in CA?
  - raldi 4y ago
    Without Prop 13, homeowners would support the construction of multifamily housing in their communities, and that would keep property taxes low for everybody (not just dynastic families) and home prices affordable. Just like things were before Prop 13.

throwaway7980 4y ago

> nothing to show for it That's why almost 12% of the US population chooses to live in California right?