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>Also, a Hummer EV is displacing other large vehicles. this is the key point, if you are going to compare compare apples to apples. I mean you can always keep

>Also, a Hummer EV is displacing other large vehicles. this is the key point, if you are going to compare compare apples to apples. I mean you can always keep making EVs bigger and thus more inefficient till you have total cost & environmental toll parity with some smaller car. Though its unlikely that somebody who was going to buy a regular hummer was going to opt for a malibu & nevermind the price. a good starting point may be comparing cars with Total cost of ownership parity & that too when both cars are past initial production ramp. my cynical brain says the truth is much simpler, fossil industry they wants a stream of these type of articles so they can keep the illusion of 'just as bad' alive for buyers on the fence. that is until then next fossil friendly administration shows.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago
> my cynical brain says the truth is much simpler, fossil industry they wants a stream of these type of articles so they can keep the illusion of 'just as bad' alive for buyers on the fence. Yes that seems to be the takeaway from Transport Evolved on another recent “study” that compared EVs to ICE cars on tire particulate emissions. https://youtu.be/aar8njoGgNY https://youtu.be/aar8njoGgNY
deleted 4y ago
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elcritch 4y ago
Talking of making larger and large EV's, but I've thought for a while that electric RVs would be great. Though I imagine that the Tesla one would(will?) be 500k minimum. But you'd get a huge electric battery for boon-docking it, running AC, etc and you get a large surface for solar panels. You might even be able to have enough solar to be able drive for a day to a new local, and then park for a few days to recharge and then drive again. ;) I bet they'd sell pretty well and still be better environmentally than the RV's that get 5mpg.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  RV parks are also great places to find level 2 chargers even for non-RV EVs. If you are driving up to Alaska, most of the trip they are basically your only option right now.
  - Robotbeat 4y ago
    I went on a long road trip recently with my Model S and charged up at RV parks where we tent camped. It's $10 more than a non-electric site, but that charge's range is worth about $30 worth of gasoline, so it's an easy win and you can skip the time to supercharge.
    - solardev 4y ago
      RV parks are probably going to start metering electricity if this becomes more commonplace... I imagine charging an EV takes a lot more energy than charging an RV, no?
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        They will charge by time (like by day as is common now) in most cases, since metering by usage often requires being regulated as a utility.
        solardev 4y ago
        Are out those ev chargers regulated as utilities then?
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Depends on the jurisdiction. In BC Canada at least, it has to be by time.
- topkai22 4y ago
  So I've run some rough numbers on this- solar power a 40 ft class A is 8.5 ft wide, so 340 Sq ft of surface area. It appears that 20 watts per Sq foot is about average, so the rv roof can generate 6.8 KW. Parked you could reasonable set out a solar awning and double that to 13.6 KW. Most existing class As are between 12000 and 30000 lbs. We are taking a 40' RV, so go to the top end of that. The F150 lightning and the Rivian both with around 8500 lbs and do about 50 kwh/100 miles on 135 kwh batteries, so a theoretical RV would likely need (very roughly) 3-4x truck equivalents of weight to maintain similar range characteristics (taking a little jump here, but most of that truck weight is battery and you still need to put an RV on top). The likely power requirements are 150-200 kwh/100 miles and 400-500 kwh of battery. The means that, at the 6.8- 13.6 KW of solar panels are adding maybe a few miles an hour to range. Not impossible to boondock it and charge over the time, but going from 10% to 85 is going to take you a good chunk of the week under pretty optimal conditions.
  - elcritch 4y ago
    That's awesome! I've not actually run the numbers, but yours sound about right. Though you might be able to add say 2 awnings to triple the regular roof. Of course, that adds weight, etc. Alas it doesn't seem sustainable to self-charge for most. Not many people probably want to take half a week to re-charge for every few hundred miles they go. Then again maybe for some it'd "add to the journey". It would still seem cool to do it all. If you were in a spot for a month, then you'd get a free "drive" afterwards. And the ability to boondock with effectively unlimited battery storage would be awesome.
    - topkai22 4y ago
      While I don't think a fully self sustaining RV is practical for many use cases, it does open up some interesting possibilities- even with the relatively slow charge is enough to add maybe 30-50 miles of range over a weekend. That should calm range anxiety as there are going to progressively be less and less places more than 60 miles from a charging station. Cost is a problem. Batteries are expensive - I saw $132/kwh as a low point, so at least $60k just for batteries, and maybe $3-6k for the solar stuff. That's half the cost of a low end class A already. Charging even at normal stations will also be interesting. Will you be able to plug in to multiple chargers at once? If not, even most "fast" chargers are going to take hours.
elihu 4y ago
A Hummer H3 is less than 5,000 pounds. The EV Hummer is about 9,000. This is a vehicle that's much heavier than almost anything on the road that isn't a commercial vehicle, including similar ICE vehicles. (And for what it's worth, I don't think Tesla should get a free pass here. Tesla Model S's generally weigh about 4,000 to 5,000 pounds, which is awfully heavy for a Sedan. They just don't look heavy, so people don't think about it.) I'm in favor of EVs generally, but I think the would would get along just fine if there wasn't an electric Hummer.
- wbsss4412 4y ago
  I’m not a huge fan of that large of a vehicle being out on the road either, but realistically, it costs well over 100k, there aren’t going to be that many out on the road any time soon. Most of this is a red herring.
- admax88qqq 4y ago
  Sure we'd also get along fine if there were no Hummers at all, gas or electric. But some people are going to make Hummers and some people are going to buy them. If the ones they buy are electric that's still a net win.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    Sure but they should be taxed heavily based on height. The heavier vehicles are, the more maintenance and faster the roads wear out. That road maintenance need to be financed.
  - bmacho 4y ago
    Well, if the amount of green energy doesn't grow fast enough, then switching to EV uses the same dirty carbon based energy, but require more of it.
- hulitu 4y ago
  At 9000 pounds you need a truck driving licence in EU to drive such a beast.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

> my cynical brain says the truth is much simpler, fossil industry they wants a stream of these type of articles so they can keep the illusion of 'just as bad' alive for buyers on the fence. Yes that seems to be the takeaway from Transport Evolved on another recent “study” that compared EVs to ICE cars on tire particulate emissions. https://youtu.be/aar8njoGgNY https://youtu.be/aar8njoGgNY

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

elcritch 4y ago

Talking of making larger and large EV's, but I've thought for a while that electric RVs would be great. Though I imagine that the Tesla one would(will?) be 500k minimum. But you'd get a huge electric battery for boon-docking it, running AC, etc and you get a large surface for solar panels. You might even be able to have enough solar to be able drive for a day to a new local, and then park for a few days to recharge and then drive again. ;) I bet they'd sell pretty well and still be better environmentally than the RV's that get 5mpg.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
RV parks are also great places to find level 2 chargers even for non-RV EVs. If you are driving up to Alaska, most of the trip they are basically your only option right now.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  I went on a long road trip recently with my Model S and charged up at RV parks where we tent camped. It's $10 more than a non-electric site, but that charge's range is worth about $30 worth of gasoline, so it's an easy win and you can skip the time to supercharge.
  - solardev 4y ago
    RV parks are probably going to start metering electricity if this becomes more commonplace... I imagine charging an EV takes a lot more energy than charging an RV, no?
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      They will charge by time (like by day as is common now) in most cases, since metering by usage often requires being regulated as a utility.
      - solardev 4y ago
        Are out those ev chargers regulated as utilities then?
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Depends on the jurisdiction. In BC Canada at least, it has to be by time.
topkai22 4y ago
So I've run some rough numbers on this- solar power a 40 ft class A is 8.5 ft wide, so 340 Sq ft of surface area. It appears that 20 watts per Sq foot is about average, so the rv roof can generate 6.8 KW. Parked you could reasonable set out a solar awning and double that to 13.6 KW. Most existing class As are between 12000 and 30000 lbs. We are taking a 40' RV, so go to the top end of that. The F150 lightning and the Rivian both with around 8500 lbs and do about 50 kwh/100 miles on 135 kwh batteries, so a theoretical RV would likely need (very roughly) 3-4x truck equivalents of weight to maintain similar range characteristics (taking a little jump here, but most of that truck weight is battery and you still need to put an RV on top). The likely power requirements are 150-200 kwh/100 miles and 400-500 kwh of battery. The means that, at the 6.8- 13.6 KW of solar panels are adding maybe a few miles an hour to range. Not impossible to boondock it and charge over the time, but going from 10% to 85 is going to take you a good chunk of the week under pretty optimal conditions.
- elcritch 4y ago
  That's awesome! I've not actually run the numbers, but yours sound about right. Though you might be able to add say 2 awnings to triple the regular roof. Of course, that adds weight, etc. Alas it doesn't seem sustainable to self-charge for most. Not many people probably want to take half a week to re-charge for every few hundred miles they go. Then again maybe for some it'd "add to the journey". It would still seem cool to do it all. If you were in a spot for a month, then you'd get a free "drive" afterwards. And the ability to boondock with effectively unlimited battery storage would be awesome.
  - topkai22 4y ago
    While I don't think a fully self sustaining RV is practical for many use cases, it does open up some interesting possibilities- even with the relatively slow charge is enough to add maybe 30-50 miles of range over a weekend. That should calm range anxiety as there are going to progressively be less and less places more than 60 miles from a charging station. Cost is a problem. Batteries are expensive - I saw $132/kwh as a low point, so at least $60k just for batteries, and maybe $3-6k for the solar stuff. That's half the cost of a low end class A already. Charging even at normal stations will also be interesting. Will you be able to plug in to multiple chargers at once? If not, even most "fast" chargers are going to take hours.

elihu 4y ago

A Hummer H3 is less than 5,000 pounds. The EV Hummer is about 9,000. This is a vehicle that's much heavier than almost anything on the road that isn't a commercial vehicle, including similar ICE vehicles. (And for what it's worth, I don't think Tesla should get a free pass here. Tesla Model S's generally weigh about 4,000 to 5,000 pounds, which is awfully heavy for a Sedan. They just don't look heavy, so people don't think about it.) I'm in favor of EVs generally, but I think the would would get along just fine if there wasn't an electric Hummer.

wbsss4412 4y ago
I’m not a huge fan of that large of a vehicle being out on the road either, but realistically, it costs well over 100k, there aren’t going to be that many out on the road any time soon. Most of this is a red herring.
admax88qqq 4y ago
Sure we'd also get along fine if there were no Hummers at all, gas or electric. But some people are going to make Hummers and some people are going to buy them. If the ones they buy are electric that's still a net win.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  Sure but they should be taxed heavily based on height. The heavier vehicles are, the more maintenance and faster the roads wear out. That road maintenance need to be financed.
- bmacho 4y ago
  Well, if the amount of green energy doesn't grow fast enough, then switching to EV uses the same dirty carbon based energy, but require more of it.
hulitu 4y ago
At 9000 pounds you need a truck driving licence in EU to drive such a beast.